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Forums - Nintendo - Wii U GPU new info and more speculation

ninjablade on 12 February 2013
curl-6 said:
ninjablade said:
Aielyn said:
ninjablade said:
the 360 slim released 2 years ago cut the orginal 360 power usage in half and was released 2 years ago, now that was 2 years ago and they were probably happy the outcome and that watt usage was the goal, now this was based on a system from 2005 that was a power hungry beast, now lets look at wii, the main focus is making the console efficiant and only use 33 watts of power which is locked, you can't go over that, and this this was released  2 years after the slim, so if you can't use common sense then i can't help you.

It took them five years to cut the 360's power usage in half, but the Wii U beats it while using less than half again, within just two years?

I asked you for an explanation, not a justification. I get that efficiency improves with time. I understand that. But you still haven't explained HOW they did it. That's the part I'm challenging you on. And it's not actually because I want you to explain it to me. I really don't need the explanation itself. I'm trying to get you to think about the situation from a different perspective - something which you've fought quite hard against, throwing false response after false response at me rather than recognising the obvious point of my question - there are things about the Wii U GPU we don't yet understand. Stop acting as though we know everything about it.

 we don't know everything about it, but tech experts say we have strong evidence that it could 160 sp or 320 sp, its one those,and thing the most important thing in the gpu, the is a very wierd situation because nintendo is hiding the specs, the ports are inferior and nothing i have seen so far looks impressive graphicly IMHO. so what do suggest, we assume the wiiu has DBZ hidden power when there is no evidence suggesting THAT at the moment, even then now with more carteful anylasis peopel are mostly saying 160 SP.

Since when have launch games, especially ports, ever demonstrated a system's full power?

who said anything about full power, do they do demonstrate what league its in though, if the port were 1080p we know wii is at the least 2.5x more powerful, if it gave us better FPS count, AA or better textures, i would say its more powerful no questions asked but it done none of this.



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ninjablade on 12 February 2013
Aielyn said:
ninjablade said:
we don't know everything about it, but tech experts say we have strong evidence that it could 160 sp or 320 sp, its one those,and thing the most important thing in the gpu, the is a very wierd situation because nintendo is hiding the specs, the ports are inferior and nothing i have seen so far looks impressive graphicly IMHO. so what do suggest, we assume the wiiu has DBZ hidden power when there is no evidence suggesting THAT at the moment, even then now with more carteful anylasis peopel are mostly saying 160 SP.

Tech experts can't fully decide between 160 sp and 320 sp. To be completely blunt, I see no reason to trust them when they can't make up their mind on something so fundamental. Especially when one of the main reasons for saying 160 sp is comparison with Llano, which is a different architecture, and isn't even a GPU (it's an APU).

Meanwhile, you repeat your false claim that the Wii U ports are "inferior". As I pointed out, Sonic Racing is getting better performance on the Wii U despite producing more pixels (yes, it produces more pixels - like I said, it has to generate the Upad images, too, and they're not just copies of the main screen image). What's more, you base your claim on two specific games - Sonic Racing and BO2. Trine 2 is distinctly better on the Wii U in terms of graphical quality. Meanwhile, Digital Foundry, who made the claim that the Wii U version isn't as strong as the others, makes specific note that it looks like they've pretty much lifted all of the graphics from the 360 version, and just inserted them into the Wii U version. Meaning, it hasn't been at all optimised for the system. And you're comparing a launch title for a new console with a version on a well-established GPU, where they've optimised the engine dramatically already.

So yeah, again, you're just trying to bypass the point, rather than addressing it.

i really don't care about what the gamepad does, the port runs at a lower res then both ps3/360, and 360 has the best FPS average, trine 2 is not a convincing argumenet, it released 1 year after the current gen versions and is a simple 2d game, which requires no use of the cpu or system bandwidth. AC3, BATMAN, blops 2, tekken tag, ninja gaiden 3, epic micky 2, mass effect 3 and dark siders 2 all are inferior ports in graphics/performance.



curl-6 on 12 February 2013
ninjablade said:
curl-6 said:
ninjablade said:
Aielyn said:
ninjablade said:
the 360 slim released 2 years ago cut the orginal 360 power usage in half and was released 2 years ago, now that was 2 years ago and they were probably happy the outcome and that watt usage was the goal, now this was based on a system from 2005 that was a power hungry beast, now lets look at wii, the main focus is making the console efficiant and only use 33 watts of power which is locked, you can't go over that, and this this was released  2 years after the slim, so if you can't use common sense then i can't help you.

It took them five years to cut the 360's power usage in half, but the Wii U beats it while using less than half again, within just two years?

I asked you for an explanation, not a justification. I get that efficiency improves with time. I understand that. But you still haven't explained HOW they did it. That's the part I'm challenging you on. And it's not actually because I want you to explain it to me. I really don't need the explanation itself. I'm trying to get you to think about the situation from a different perspective - something which you've fought quite hard against, throwing false response after false response at me rather than recognising the obvious point of my question - there are things about the Wii U GPU we don't yet understand. Stop acting as though we know everything about it.

 we don't know everything about it, but tech experts say we have strong evidence that it could 160 sp or 320 sp, its one those,and thing the most important thing in the gpu, the is a very wierd situation because nintendo is hiding the specs, the ports are inferior and nothing i have seen so far looks impressive graphicly IMHO. so what do suggest, we assume the wiiu has DBZ hidden power when there is no evidence suggesting THAT at the moment, even then now with more carteful anylasis peopel are mostly saying 160 SP.

Since when have launch games, especially ports, ever demonstrated a system's full power?

who said anything about full power, do they do demonstrate what league its in though, if the port were 1080p we know wii is at the least 2.5x more powerful, if it gave us better FPS count, AA or better textures, i would say its more powerful no questions asked but it done none of this.

The ports in question are based on 6-7 years of experience with the 360/PS3 hardware and zero experience, (and probably very little effort) with the Wii U.

And Trine 2 is not just a simple 2D game. If you want to look at tech analysis, Digital Foundry caled it "technically brilliant," and the developers themselves said that the PS3 and 360 could not run the Wii U version of the game. (Which has superior textures, anti-aliasing, water effects, foliage, normal map compression, screen resolution, and physics)



ninjablade on 12 February 2013
curl-6 said:
ninjablade said:
curl-6 said:
ninjablade said:
Aielyn said:
ninjablade said:
the 360 slim released 2 years ago cut the orginal 360 power usage in half and was released 2 years ago, now that was 2 years ago and they were probably happy the outcome and that watt usage was the goal, now this was based on a system from 2005 that was a power hungry beast, now lets look at wii, the main focus is making the console efficiant and only use 33 watts of power which is locked, you can't go over that, and this this was released  2 years after the slim, so if you can't use common sense then i can't help you.

It took them five years to cut the 360's power usage in half, but the Wii U beats it while using less than half again, within just two years?

I asked you for an explanation, not a justification. I get that efficiency improves with time. I understand that. But you still haven't explained HOW they did it. That's the part I'm challenging you on. And it's not actually because I want you to explain it to me. I really don't need the explanation itself. I'm trying to get you to think about the situation from a different perspective - something which you've fought quite hard against, throwing false response after false response at me rather than recognising the obvious point of my question - there are things about the Wii U GPU we don't yet understand. Stop acting as though we know everything about it.

 we don't know everything about it, but tech experts say we have strong evidence that it could 160 sp or 320 sp, its one those,and thing the most important thing in the gpu, the is a very wierd situation because nintendo is hiding the specs, the ports are inferior and nothing i have seen so far looks impressive graphicly IMHO. so what do suggest, we assume the wiiu has DBZ hidden power when there is no evidence suggesting THAT at the moment, even then now with more carteful anylasis peopel are mostly saying 160 SP.

Since when have launch games, especially ports, ever demonstrated a system's full power?

who said anything about full power, do they do demonstrate what league its in though, if the port were 1080p we know wii is at the least 2.5x more powerful, if it gave us better FPS count, AA or better textures, i would say its more powerful no questions asked but it done none of this.

The ports in question are based on 6-7 years of experience with the 360/PS3 hardware and zero experience, (and probaably very little effort) with the Wii U.

And Trine 2 is not just a simple 2D game. If you want to look at tech analysis, Digital Foundry caled it "technically brilliant," and the developers themselves said that the PS3 and 360 could not run the Wii U version of the game. (Which has superior textures, anti-aliasing, water effects, foliage, normal map compression, screen resolution, and physics)

thats great and all but i find all those game i listed to be more techincally impressive, trine 2 is a pretty but simple 2d game, it has nice graphics but its not doing anything else, nobnody would consider trine 2 on 360/ps3 up there with even high end curren gen games, i mean uncharted 3, GOW3 and halo 4 blow it away graphicly.



curl-6 on 12 February 2013
ninjablade said:
curl-6 said:
ninjablade said:
curl-6 said:
ninjablade said:
Aielyn said:
ninjablade said:
the 360 slim released 2 years ago cut the orginal 360 power usage in half and was released 2 years ago, now that was 2 years ago and they were probably happy the outcome and that watt usage was the goal, now this was based on a system from 2005 that was a power hungry beast, now lets look at wii, the main focus is making the console efficiant and only use 33 watts of power which is locked, you can't go over that, and this this was released  2 years after the slim, so if you can't use common sense then i can't help you.

It took them five years to cut the 360's power usage in half, but the Wii U beats it while using less than half again, within just two years?

I asked you for an explanation, not a justification. I get that efficiency improves with time. I understand that. But you still haven't explained HOW they did it. That's the part I'm challenging you on. And it's not actually because I want you to explain it to me. I really don't need the explanation itself. I'm trying to get you to think about the situation from a different perspective - something which you've fought quite hard against, throwing false response after false response at me rather than recognising the obvious point of my question - there are things about the Wii U GPU we don't yet understand. Stop acting as though we know everything about it.

 we don't know everything about it, but tech experts say we have strong evidence that it could 160 sp or 320 sp, its one those,and thing the most important thing in the gpu, the is a very wierd situation because nintendo is hiding the specs, the ports are inferior and nothing i have seen so far looks impressive graphicly IMHO. so what do suggest, we assume the wiiu has DBZ hidden power when there is no evidence suggesting THAT at the moment, even then now with more carteful anylasis peopel are mostly saying 160 SP.

Since when have launch games, especially ports, ever demonstrated a system's full power?

who said anything about full power, do they do demonstrate what league its in though, if the port were 1080p we know wii is at the least 2.5x more powerful, if it gave us better FPS count, AA or better textures, i would say its more powerful no questions asked but it done none of this.

The ports in question are based on 6-7 years of experience with the 360/PS3 hardware and zero experience, (and probaably very little effort) with the Wii U.

And Trine 2 is not just a simple 2D game. If you want to look at tech analysis, Digital Foundry caled it "technically brilliant," and the developers themselves said that the PS3 and 360 could not run the Wii U version of the game. (Which has superior textures, anti-aliasing, water effects, foliage, normal map compression, screen resolution, and physics)

thats great and all but i find all those game i listed to be more techincally impressive, trine 2 is a pretty but simple 2d game, it has nice graphics but its not doing anything else, nobnody would consider trine 2 on 360/ps3 up there with even high end curren gen games, i mean uncharted 3, GOW3 and halo 4 blow it away graphicly.

A game can be impossible on PS3/360 but not necessarily prettier than Halo 4/Uncharted 3; it just has to use more than 500MB of RAM, or exceed some other bottleneck within the PS3/360.

And the game you posted are big-budget exclusives, Trine 2 is a downloadable multiplat. And on Wii U, a launch title. Show me a PS3/360 launch title as good looking as Trine 2 Director's Cut.



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ninjablade on 12 February 2013
curl-6 said:
ninjablade said:
curl-6 said:
ninjablade said:
curl-6 said:
ninjablade said:
Aielyn said:
ninjablade said:
the 360 slim released 2 years ago cut the orginal 360 power usage in half and was released 2 years ago, now that was 2 years ago and they were probably happy the outcome and that watt usage was the goal, now this was based on a system from 2005 that was a power hungry beast, now lets look at wii, the main focus is making the console efficiant and only use 33 watts of power which is locked, you can't go over that, and this this was released  2 years after the slim, so if you can't use common sense then i can't help you.

It took them five years to cut the 360's power usage in half, but the Wii U beats it while using less than half again, within just two years?

I asked you for an explanation, not a justification. I get that efficiency improves with time. I understand that. But you still haven't explained HOW they did it. That's the part I'm challenging you on. And it's not actually because I want you to explain it to me. I really don't need the explanation itself. I'm trying to get you to think about the situation from a different perspective - something which you've fought quite hard against, throwing false response after false response at me rather than recognising the obvious point of my question - there are things about the Wii U GPU we don't yet understand. Stop acting as though we know everything about it.

 we don't know everything about it, but tech experts say we have strong evidence that it could 160 sp or 320 sp, its one those,and thing the most important thing in the gpu, the is a very wierd situation because nintendo is hiding the specs, the ports are inferior and nothing i have seen so far looks impressive graphicly IMHO. so what do suggest, we assume the wiiu has DBZ hidden power when there is no evidence suggesting THAT at the moment, even then now with more carteful anylasis peopel are mostly saying 160 SP.

Since when have launch games, especially ports, ever demonstrated a system's full power?

who said anything about full power, do they do demonstrate what league its in though, if the port were 1080p we know wii is at the least 2.5x more powerful, if it gave us better FPS count, AA or better textures, i would say its more powerful no questions asked but it done none of this.

The ports in question are based on 6-7 years of experience with the 360/PS3 hardware and zero experience, (and probaably very little effort) with the Wii U.

And Trine 2 is not just a simple 2D game. If you want to look at tech analysis, Digital Foundry caled it "technically brilliant," and the developers themselves said that the PS3 and 360 could not run the Wii U version of the game. (Which has superior textures, anti-aliasing, water effects, foliage, normal map compression, screen resolution, and physics)

thats great and all but i find all those game i listed to be more techincally impressive, trine 2 is a pretty but simple 2d game, it has nice graphics but its not doing anything else, nobnody would consider trine 2 on 360/ps3 up there with even high end curren gen games, i mean uncharted 3, GOW3 and halo 4 blow it away graphicly.

A game can be impossible on PS3/360 but not necessarily prettier than Halo 4/Uncharted 3; it just has to use more than 500MB of RAM, or exceed some other bottleneck within the PS3/360.

And the game you posted are big-budget exclusives, Trine 2 is a downloadable multiplat. And on Wii U, a launch title. Show me a PS3/360 launch title as good looking as Trine 2 Director's Cut.

you want me  compare games 3d games from 2006 to a 2d game from 2012. which is just silly ,  specs alone on 360 was a 20x jump from xbox, they were not even close to touching its potentail in 2006 cause it was so ahead of its time. system specs since the 3d era have always been ahead of there time rivaling the most powerful pc, those days are over now, you can get pc card HD5550 with the same gpu specs that have for wiiu and it will blow past 360.http://forum.beyond3d.com/showpost.php?p=1705494&postcount=4658



curl-6 on 12 February 2013
ninjablade said:

you want me  compare games 3d games from 2006 to a 2d game from 2012. which is just silly ,  specs alone on 360 was a 20x jump from xbox, they were not even close to touching its potentail in 2006 cause it was so ahead of its time. system specs since the 3d era have always been ahead of there time rivaling the most powerful pc, those days are over now, you can get pc card HD5550 with the same gpu specs that have for wiiu and it will blow past 360.http://forum.beyond3d.com/showpost.php?p=1705494&postcount=4658

Developers had no experience with the 360 in 2005. Just like they had no experience with the Wii U in 2012.



ninjablade on 12 February 2013
curl-6 said:
ninjablade said:

you want me  compare games 3d games from 2006 to a 2d game from 2012. which is just silly ,  specs alone on 360 was a 20x jump from xbox, they were not even close to touching its potentail in 2006 cause it was so ahead of its time. system specs since the 3d era have always been ahead of there time rivaling the most powerful pc, those days are over now, you can get pc card HD5550 with the same gpu specs that have for wiiu and it will blow past 360.http://forum.beyond3d.com/showpost.php?p=1705494&postcount=4658

Developers had no experience with the 360 in 2005. Just like they had no experience with the Wii U in 2012.


your not getting the point, the wiiu specs are not ground breaking, developers have been working on specs that exceeded those years ago, unlike 360, where the tech just came out, these days consoles are like pc's in a closed box, if you read the link i posted you would learn something.



curl-6 on 12 February 2013
ninjablade said:
curl-6 said:
ninjablade said:

you want me  compare games 3d games from 2006 to a 2d game from 2012. which is just silly ,  specs alone on 360 was a 20x jump from xbox, they were not even close to touching its potentail in 2006 cause it was so ahead of its time. system specs since the 3d era have always been ahead of there time rivaling the most powerful pc, those days are over now, you can get pc card HD5550 with the same gpu specs that have for wiiu and it will blow past 360.http://forum.beyond3d.com/showpost.php?p=1705494&postcount=4658

Developers had no experience with the 360 in 2005. Just like they had no experience with the Wii U in 2012.


your not getting the point, the wiiu specs are not ground breaking, developers have been working on specs that exceeded those years ago, unlike 360, where the tech just came out, these days consoles are like pc's in a closed box, if you read the link i posted you would learn something.

You're missing the point; the Wii U has a different architecture to the PS3 and 360. Existing engines are designed around the PS3/360's strengths, not the Wii U's. The fact that Wii U isn't cutting edge doesn't change the fact that it is customized and unfamiliar hardware to devs.

Every Wii U game so far is either (A) a port with the afore-mentioned problem, (B) not graphically ambitious,  or (C) not graphically competent. Hence, games to date are not an accurate representation of its capabilities.



ninjablade on 12 February 2013
curl-6 said:
ninjablade said:
curl-6 said:
ninjablade said:

you want me  compare games 3d games from 2006 to a 2d game from 2012. which is just silly ,  specs alone on 360 was a 20x jump from xbox, they were not even close to touching its potentail in 2006 cause it was so ahead of its time. system specs since the 3d era have always been ahead of there time rivaling the most powerful pc, those days are over now, you can get pc card HD5550 with the same gpu specs that have for wiiu and it will blow past 360.http://forum.beyond3d.com/showpost.php?p=1705494&postcount=4658

Developers had no experience with the 360 in 2005. Just like they had no experience with the Wii U in 2012.


your not getting the point, the wiiu specs are not ground breaking, developers have been working on specs that exceeded those years ago, unlike 360, where the tech just came out, these days consoles are like pc's in a closed box, if you read the link i posted you would learn something.

You're missing the point; the Wii U has a different architecture to the PS3 and 360. Existing engines are designed around the PS3/360's strengths, not the Wii U's. The fact that Wii U isn't cutting edge doesn't change the fact that it is customized and unfamiliar hardware to devs.

Every Wii U game so far is either (A) a port with the afore-mentioned problem, (B) not graphically ambitious,  or (C) not graphically competent. Hence, games to date are not an accurate representation of its capabilities.

and tell me how do pc ports work,  that pc card came out in 2009 and it runs call of duty 4 much better then 360/ ps3, and it based of the maximum perfromance  of the proposed 320sp wii u gpu specs, do tell why its so different on wii u, you will notice no tech head used that argument caus they know better and pc is ma much more bottle necked system then any of the consoles.