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Forums - General - Wind Energy- a viable alternative to fossil fuels now?

 

Can wind farms and other alternative green fuels replace power plants?

Yes, as the technology improves 11 26.83%
 
Maybe 0 0%
 
No, nuclear is the future 10 24.39%
 
No way 7 17.07%
 
Fossil fuels are still more efficient? 4 9.76%
 
Don't know 0 0%
 
Maybe, with other forms o... 9 21.95%
 
Total:41
Mnementh said:
SvennoJ said:
I wonder if we could have a fusion plant up and running already if all the money spend on wind turbines had been poured into fusion research.

It's a good alternative for remote places, provided you add some hydrogen fuel cell tech to store surplus energy for when you need it. For big cities you need plants than can provide peak power on demand
What happens in Spain on a hot day with no wind? It would be bad over here with all the ACs.

I don't know much about wind turbines, but my gut says the less moving parts the better. Having thousands of wind turbines for power must require a lot of maintenance. Solar power might be better in the long run?

Well, we invested a lot of money into researching fusion energy. Really a lot. So far it is a big moneysink. It might be a good option in the future, but don't think it will be ready in production in noticeable levels before 2050. the ITER-projects ends 2038, and that is a research-reactor. We are far from commercial use.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ITER

Yeah it's taking a long time. Looks like South Korea is going to take the next step.
http://www.nature.com/news/south-korea-makes-billion-dollar-bet-on-fusion-power-1.12251
They hope to start delivering 1 giga watt of fusion generated power to the net in the 2030's



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Cobretti2 said:


In Australia you get paid the net energy generated into the grid.

This happens/has happened in pretty much every country. The sole reason for this is to make politicians look good on tv: "Hey look, we are green politicians - we care for the environment.. blablabla". The economy behind this overpaying small producers is unsane, catastrophic and dumb, and puts a heavy bill on all those customers who ultimately have to pay for this "generosity" (somebody has to pay for this "green" energy in the end - and it is NOT the electricity companies). In Germany, for example, prices are going through the roof and more and more people are gettimg into trouble paying their electricity bills .



Mnementh said:
TheJimbo1234 said:
 


But that doesn't change anything I said. For exmaple, making nuclear plants would have been a better option and Germany would have been able to export more power constantly.


Actually France (>90% power from nuclear plants) was in dire need of electricity the winter. They paid 2€ per kWh. We exported everything we could, but the cables weren't big enough, so the UK also got money out of France.


That doesn't mean Wind is good though, nor my points wrong.

It just means France did not keep up with their growing power demands and Germany did. And as I said previously, Germany would have seen greater returns if it had invested in Nuclear, not wind.



megaman79 said:
dallas said:
http://www.jouleunlimited.com/why-solar-fuel/overview

Here is a more efficient way.... $2.00 per gallon of biodiesel, full-scale production starts soon. These guys won awards from the Wall Street Journal, MIT, World Economic Forum, etc. And it can feasibly fix the limited supply of oil, well as far as fuels go, it still wont replicate things like plastics or petrochemicals ( or even oil as a base product) but it's a start.

Click on the link i just put up, talks about costs , sustainability, etc

Because somebody in oil and gas is making money from the production of biodiesel, and there are still emissions.

 

The oil and gas industry isnt really the same thing as biodiesel, it's a synthetic.  Also, yes there are emissions, but all of the C02 will beef the plants up, make them hardier and get them to produce more oxygen. Circle of life.



SvennoJ said:

Yeah it's taking a long time. Looks like South Korea is going to take the next step.
http://www.nature.com/news/south-korea-makes-billion-dollar-bet-on-fusion-power-1.12251
They hope to start delivering 1 giga watt of fusion generated power to the net in the 2030's

I really had big hopes in fusion energy 10 years ago. That has pretty much crashed, as I got confronted with the reality. 1 GW at 2030 would be a good achievement for fusion power, but to set it into relation: at the moment sourh korea builds an offshore-windpark that is planned to produce 2.5 GW of energy: http://www.alternative-energy-news.info/south-korea-off-shore-wind-farm/



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Mnementh said:
SvennoJ said:
 

Yeah it's taking a long time. Looks like South Korea is going to take the next step.
http://www.nature.com/news/south-korea-makes-billion-dollar-bet-on-fusion-power-1.12251
They hope to start delivering 1 giga watt of fusion generated power to the net in the 2030's

I really had big hopes in fusion energy 10 years ago. That has pretty much crashed, as I got confronted with the reality. 1 GW at 2030 would be a good achievement for fusion power, but to set it into relation: at the moment sourh korea builds an offshore-windpark that is planned to produce 2.5 GW of energy: http://www.alternative-energy-news.info/south-korea-off-shore-wind-farm/


You've heard about the ITER project, right?

Btw, the progress in fusion isn't really measured by the amount of GW produced, but rather how efficient the process is,  energy out divided by energy in. 

As far as I know, the JET project has produced around 70% of energy put in, but the ITER project aims to make 10 times the amount of energy of what was put in but that will be in 2030...



TheJimbo1234 said:
Mnementh said:
TheJimbo1234 said:
 


But that doesn't change anything I said. For exmaple, making nuclear plants would have been a better option and Germany would have been able to export more power constantly.


Actually France (>90% power from nuclear plants) was in dire need of electricity the winter. They paid 2€ per kWh. We exported everything we could, but the cables weren't big enough, so the UK also got money out of France.


That doesn't mean Wind is good though, nor my points wrong.

It just means France did not keep up with their growing power demands and Germany did. And as I said previously, Germany would have seen greater returns if it had invested in Nuclear, not wind.

Well, it is not that France didn't try. They develop the next generation of nuclear power - the EPR.

They build one in France and one in Finland:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flamanville_Nuclear_Power_Plant

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olkiluoto_Nuclear_Power_Plant

The construction has been delayed by years and the costs in both  cases already more than doubled. That sounds like a real sane investment. That's what you recommend germany?



3DS-FC: 4511-1768-7903 (Mii-Name: Mnementh), Nintendo-Network-ID: Mnementh, Switch: SW-7706-3819-9381 (Mnementh)

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dallas said:
Mnementh said:
SvennoJ said:
 

Yeah it's taking a long time. Looks like South Korea is going to take the next step.
http://www.nature.com/news/south-korea-makes-billion-dollar-bet-on-fusion-power-1.12251
They hope to start delivering 1 giga watt of fusion generated power to the net in the 2030's

I really had big hopes in fusion energy 10 years ago. That has pretty much crashed, as I got confronted with the reality. 1 GW at 2030 would be a good achievement for fusion power, but to set it into relation: at the moment sourh korea builds an offshore-windpark that is planned to produce 2.5 GW of energy: http://www.alternative-energy-news.info/south-korea-off-shore-wind-farm/


You've heard about the ITER project, right?

LOL. I cutted the quite tree for my mention of ITER. That is planned for a time-frame to 2038 (and it is not commercial, it is only a research project) and that has develop into a major moneysink. Yes, fusion power would be cool, but don't expect it to be mature before 2050. We need solutions now.



3DS-FC: 4511-1768-7903 (Mii-Name: Mnementh), Nintendo-Network-ID: Mnementh, Switch: SW-7706-3819-9381 (Mnementh)

my greatest games: 2017, 2018, 2019, 2020, 2021, 2022, 2023, 2024, 2025 

10 years greatest game event!

bets: [GTA6]

Mnementh said:
SvennoJ said:
 

Yeah it's taking a long time. Looks like South Korea is going to take the next step.
http://www.nature.com/news/south-korea-makes-billion-dollar-bet-on-fusion-power-1.12251
They hope to start delivering 1 giga watt of fusion generated power to the net in the 2030's

I really had big hopes in fusion energy 10 years ago. That has pretty much crashed, as I got confronted with the reality. 1 GW at 2030 would be a good achievement for fusion power, but to set it into relation: at the moment sourh korea builds an offshore-windpark that is planned to produce 2.5 GW of energy: http://www.alternative-energy-news.info/south-korea-off-shore-wind-farm/

A project costing 8.3 billion to place 500 wind turbines in a hard to reach place where the elements are harshest on the materials involved.
1 billion for an experiment doesn't seem so bad then.
My hopes are for a future with unlimited cheap energy where electricity can be used to replace fossil fuels. Wind energy is not going to be able to provide that. In the mean time at least wind energy is better then building more coal fired plants.
2.5 GW is about 4 average sized coal fired plants. It costs about 5 billion less to build 2.5GW from coal, it will be a while before wind turbines make up the difference.



Mnementh said:
TheJimbo1234 said:
Mnementh said:
TheJimbo1234 said:
 


But that doesn't change anything I said. For exmaple, making nuclear plants would have been a better option and Germany would have been able to export more power constantly.


Actually France (>90% power from nuclear plants) was in dire need of electricity the winter. They paid 2€ per kWh. We exported everything we could, but the cables weren't big enough, so the UK also got money out of France.


That doesn't mean Wind is good though, nor my points wrong.

It just means France did not keep up with their growing power demands and Germany did. And as I said previously, Germany would have seen greater returns if it had invested in Nuclear, not wind.

Well, it is not that France didn't try. They develop the next generation of nuclear power - the EPR.

They build one in France and one in Finland:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flamanville_Nuclear_Power_Plant

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olkiluoto_Nuclear_Power_Plant

The construction has been delayed by years and the costs in both  cases already more than doubled. That sounds like a real sane investment. That's what you recommend germany?


Well that is only one type of Gen 3+ reactors. Why did they not opt to build other variants, new or old? The fact that a prototype reactor went over budget is anything but surprising and not exactly reason to dismiss all Nuclear Reactors.