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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Nintendo's unrealistic pricing for old-school platformers et al.

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happydolphin said:
Wyrdness said:
This argument has various flaws as some of you may as well say that because some 2d fighting games can be downloaded for cheap SF4 should have been cheap on release as well when that's not how things work. People have gone over quality being down to the individual and market so the's no need to touch that, I personally find the first party offering far superior to the listed alternatives in both design and quality with only Trine standing out some what. To bring up such an argument for a thread you'll have to do a more direct comparison then simply use your opinion on value and quality and compare prices, for example NSMBU has MP for 5 people, challenge modes and about 10hr minimum playtime with extras unlocking afterward, I hear one of the games listed barely has 2hrs for starters which highlights the flaws in the format you've chosen for criticism.

There are fair criticisms to OP it isn't immaculate. An example that drives the point is League of Legends. The game is free to play and has an immense following. I would be hard-pressed to find that at 1$ it would not sell. Though it's true that the cheaper the game, the cheaper the price of admission (to the new IP), but these games are growing in popularity and will create low-end disruption over the next few years.

Street Fighter IV was, visually speaking, much deeper than NSMB, and I can only guess that it required much more work. If you play SFIV, you'll notice the detail in the characters is almost perfect.


Not to mention the fact that SF4 has online, thats more work and cost right there not to mention it extends replay value almost forever.



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RolStoppable said:
happydolphin said:

I understand, but when 2D games were not selling much in generations prior, and when now they found a massive boost chiefly thanks to the family appeal of the Wii, and when mobile and DD games are showing competing value, it's something to keep an eye out for.

You do realize that 2D games were not selling much, because for the most part they did not exist? They saw a massive boost, because they were being made again.


This is not true, PS1 had quite a few 2d games some of them were quite popular. Castlevania(did better than the n64 3d counterpart), Rayman, Crash(hybrid i know), Tomba, etc. The irony it was Ninty's own 64 that was lacking that department. Dont know what the hell happened after that.



RolStoppable said:
happydolphin said:

I understand, but when 2D games were not selling much in generations prior, and when now they found a massive boost chiefly thanks to the family appeal of the Wii, and when mobile and DD games are showing competing value, it's something to keep an eye out for.

You do realize that 2D games were not selling much, because for the most part they did not exist? They saw a massive boost, because they were being made again.

I just checked Crystal Shards and, in comparison to Epic Yarn, it sold decently.

Donkey Kong Jungle Beat sold really badly though.

Metroid Fusion sold ok.

Super Princess Peach sold ok, less than 1m.

Yoshi's story did pretty well at 3m.

Paper Mario 64 sold 1.38m.

Dr. Mario 64 sold bad.

It's all hit and miss honestly.



spurgeonryan said:
NintendoPie said:
Sometimes, HappyD, I think you are too controversial.



Thanks for showing up! Do you think Nintendo games are over priced?

I've posted on that matter already, several times. Just look through the thread!



happydolphin said:
Spazzy_D said:

You don't judge the market price, THE MARKET SETS THE VALUE.  THAT IS HOW IT IS DEFINED.  If their is no makret for the game, then people won't buy it.

It's simple, if people don't buy the games, the price is lowered, until that happens, though, they are sold for the correct percieved value.

Um.... at Nintendo, when they set the price..... how do they or in your mind it's done magically by the market?

Don't take this a personal offense, but you are just categorically wrong.  It's not an opinion thing, it's an ecnomic thing.  Nintendo charges what the market is willing to pay, so yes, the market sets the value.  If the market felt that Mario games were worth 200 dollars, you can bet Nintendo would charge that.

In anycase, I think you are a good poster, and this isn't an attack, but you are wrong and unwilling to understand that you aare wrong, so I'm done with this thread. 



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KylieDog said:
Spazzy_D said:
KylieDog said:


Why are you talking about markets, that wasn't being discussed.


Becuase the value of an object, and the concept of being robbed, are based on the items price, which is based on the market.  A steak won't cost me 50 cents just becuase that's what I feel is fair price.  A company will charge whatever people are willing to pay.


...but if you want a steak and the only place selling one is $50 then you're paying $50, regardless the actual value of the steak.  Getting robbed.


...and market doesn't determine what is value, all Mario selling like it does is saying is that Nintendo are willing to accept those sales at that price point.  What about the people who do not buy Mario because they think it doesn't hold value compared to much cheaper but similar quality games?  An impossible figure to measure but lets not pretend it doesn't exist.  Value is what you get vs price, compared between products.

Nope if I don't think a steak is worth 50 bucks, then I go and eat a hamburger, and when the steak doesn't sell at 50 dollars, it eventually goes down to 20 dollars, and then I and the rest of the market will buy it.

What you're talking about is equilibirum, when demand meets supply due to hitting the right price, which Nintendo does well with these games.  It's not about pushing maximum units, it's about maximizing profits.  If 5 million people buy Mario at 50 dollars, its better then  10 million buying at 20 dollars, right?



happydolphin said:
morenoingrato said:
And yet, I was more glad with the 50 bucks I spent on DKCR than the 10 bucks I spent on Limbo.

Since there is no rational argument that could change your mind about this topic, it's not worth the hassle to explain how people don't feel robbed and it's all a subjective thing.

Try selling Limbo at $50.

I already explained this many times. Even if taste is subjective, when the pricepoint is set by the business, it's based on heuristics and objective measures of demand in the industry.

At the moment, there is growing demand in the games I mentioned in OP, and it matters to me how Nintendo is reacting to that. Though many people have bought NSMB Wii, with the degrading success of the newer entries some of our suspicions are being proven correct, that the price truly wasn't right in the first place. You don't know how much you like a gift until it's unwrapped, that's the principle behind this.

If it's too much of a hassle to explain it's better not to post at all imho. Unless you have a point that you can defend, it's best not to try.

How do you define succes with a NSMB game? The new ones released to smaller userbases, it would be impossible for them to match the success of their predecessors. Attachment rate is probably better, so I would not say it is degrading success. Price seems to have done nothing for it.

 

Point is I think you are cherrypicking, and you cannot really blame it on pricing.



happydolphin said:
RolStoppable said:
happydolphin said:

I understand, but when 2D games were not selling much in generations prior, and when now they found a massive boost chiefly thanks to the family appeal of the Wii, and when mobile and DD games are showing competing value, it's something to keep an eye out for.

You do realize that 2D games were not selling much, because for the most part they did not exist? They saw a massive boost, because they were being made again.

I just checked Crystal Shards and, in comparison to Epic Yarn, it sold decently.

Donkey Kong Jungle Beat sold really badly though.

Metroid Fusion sold ok.

Super Princess Peach sold ok, less than 1m.

Yoshi's story did pretty well at 3m.

Paper Mario 64 sold 1.38m.

Dr. Mario 64 sold bad.

It's all hit and miss honestly.

When you're opening with DK Jungle Beat, then you know there aren't many games from that era to choose from.

I love Donkey Kong Country. I waited 14 years for a sequel after the third SNES game. I suffered through DK64. I would not touch DK Jungle Beat with a bargepole. Bongos to play a platformer? No. Just, no. How's that for value?

What is value by the way? How would you define it? I have my own definition. I've played the vast majority of the games in your OP. The most recent game I played would be NSMB U, which took me over 20 hours of play to fully complete (meaning 5 profile stars, not just the quickest run through possible). As I claimed the fifth and final star for my profile, I did not feel robbed.

I also played Rayman Origins last year. It took me a similar amount of time to do everything in that game as well (collecting all the medals, stone teeth, etc). I didn't find it to be as good as a Nintendo offering, but I did not feel robbed.

Sticking with non-Nintendo efforts, I've played both LittleBigPlanet games. There's millions of levels available to play, be they the main story levels or user created efforts. Most of them are utter shit, but there's enough decent efforts out there to not feel robbed.

Now, on to the downloadable games. I played Limbo and did everything there was to do in a single, short 2.5 hour gaming session. I felt robbed.

Braid took me a little longer, but it was still over and done with in one evening. I felt robbed.

Trine was the most satisfying downloadable game by far, but it didn't launch at the same price as the others. It was a $40 game when it first released on PC, and was $20 at launch on PSN a while later. It may be $10 now, but that's a poor reflection of how it used to be priced.

I don't really think it's wise bringing up mobile platformers, given that the only ones that are adequately functional with a touchscreen are auto-runners, which do half of the work for you.



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The thing is these games do sell at those prices. Look at the most recent example, New Super Mario Bros. U. At least half of all Wii U owners if not more own it. While it may seem unreasonable to a lot of people who aren't big fans of the genre, it's very reasonable for fans of the genre for the simple fact that we really don't see a lot of investments in high quality 2D or even 3D platformers anymore. Older core gamers buy those games because they miss those types of games. They're ideal for little kids because the learning curve is simple.

Also, someone on another site tried saying Nintendo has been flooding the market with these types of games, which simply isn't true. It all goes back to the fact that there aren't too many of them anymore. That means every time Nintendo releases and markets one of those games, it gets a lot of attention from the press.



Check out my art blog: http://jon-erich-art.blogspot.com

If I thought a game like DKCR for 49$ was a ripoff then I would have abandoned gaming long ago.