By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - Nintendo Discussion - The Official Legend of Zelda Thread: Echoes of Wisdom Out Now

Tagged games:

 

Are you planning to buy Echoes of Wisdom?

I already pre-ordered 5 38.46%
 
Picking it up soon 4 30.77%
 
Waiting for a sale 2 15.38%
 
No, it's not for me 2 15.38%
 
Total:13
AngryLittleAlchemist said:

Kind of a dumb image honestly ... 99% of "contradictions" can be explained by this thing called nuance. 

 

Also a pretty unfunny use of the Asian's talk funny stereotype. 

Too bad most of the contradictions from the Zelda fanbase aren't explained by it which is why it became a meme.



Around the Network

BOTW holds up quite well.



mZuzek said:
Baddman said:

can't speak for others but Skyward Sword is the only console Zelda game I am not fond of and the story is far from what I'd call amazing or even  just good 

Did you finish it?

Yep sure did.  Just never had the urge to replay it like other console Zelda games



mZuzek said:

Was just debating Zelda with some dude on Discord and he dropped this gem about the fanbase:

 

>gets WW
"this game is for children we want a real man's zelda game!"

>gets TP, a darker more mature zelda
"this game is trying too hard to be ocarina of time! we want an original story!"

 >gets SS, an amazing story that shows the origins of the master sword
"this game is too linear, I want more options!"

>gets BotW, which lets you do anything
"this game has sucky music and bad story"

Spot on, those are nice ways to oversimply the most generic criticisms people tend to have against those games. 



My bet with The_Liquid_Laser: I think the Switch won't surpass the PS2 as the best selling system of all time. If it does, I'll play a game of a list that The_Liquid_Laser will provide, I will have to play it for 50 hours or complete it, whatever comes first. 

Wyrdness said:

BOTW holds up quite well.

....wtf I didn't know your horse would swim when in water -_-



Around the Network
Wyrdness said:
AngryLittleAlchemist said:

Kind of a dumb image honestly ... 99% of "contradictions" can be explained by this thing called nuance. 

 

Also a pretty unfunny use of the Asian's talk funny stereotype. 

Too bad most of the contradictions from the Zelda fanbase aren't explained by it which is why it became a meme.

......What?

The "Zelda fanbase" is not an institution, it's not a group of people coming together and making a consensus, it's not the College of Twilight Princess Haters. It's just random people, most of who don't even know each other, that just so happen to like the overarching point of a series. 

These kind of points are made all the time, not specifically about the Zelda fanbase. Someone defends a game or series by making an unfunny mis-characterization of why people don't like it to try and make the opposition seem contradictory. And of course, that's really not how it works. People want something, and then it doesn't come to fruition the way they wanted it. They complain. They have the right to. 

I've seen more people articulate why they don't like x Zelda game than I have people who like it explain in-depth why so. That's because people who have an unpopular opinion are given more pressure to not only explain that opinion, but justify it (which is really unfair). If anything the Zelda fanbase is known for having some of the better critiques out there, considering how passionate the fans are, so I don't even really get the point. If every game was as simple as that unfunny "le asian speak" meme was, and people judged games on the most basic conceptual level possible, then you might have a point. 

For what it's worth you're free to think what you want. I'm not even talking about this from a personal perspective, as I don't really have any unpopular or edgy Zelda opinions. 



Vini256 said:
Runa216 said:
Wind Waker:

*wall of text*

You're allowed to like other games more but to say it's mediocre or 'just good' is plain wrong.

 

Runa216 said: 

I know the game got great reviews, but to this day I genuinely have no idea how. Skyward Sword is one of my infamous outliers alongside other terrible games in franchises I otherwise love. 

14 - Skyward Sword (Broken, unplayable tech demo for babies)

I love me some Zelda. I hate me some Skyward Sword. 

So we can't say Wind Waker is mediocre but you can say Skyward Sword is awful? That is a double standard if I've ever seen one.

Also, Skyward Sword is one of my favorite games ever (If not my #1) while I consider BotW my biggest disappointment in gaming. Just so you know, really ;)

Saying one game is better than another is not a double standard. A double standard is refusing to apply the same rules of criticism to two separate things based solely on bias. 

Saying Wind Waker is bad is wrong because Wind Waker is amazing. 

Saying Skyward Sword is bad is a reasonable thing to say because that game is a broken tech demo for babies. 

One of these games are good and has already gone down as a timeless classic (Wind Waker), and the other has been mostly forgotten to time with video essays describing where it went wrong all over the place. Wind Waker got better review scores and sold better, Wind Waker has timeless art direction and animation, and isn't plagued with horribly sad and pathetic, broken motion controls. 

So you can dislike Wind Waker for its art style or whatever all you want. That doesn't make it a bad game. Me hating Skyward Sword for having core gameplay mechanics that are fundamentally broken and conveyance so detailed and spelled out for you that babies can play it is an actual critique of the game's quality. One is a bad game, the other is a game that has something you don't like. So no, it's not a double standard at all when the critiques for one are subjective and the critiques for the other are objective. 



My Console Library:

PS5, Switch, XSX

PS4, PS3, PS2, PS1, WiiU, Wii, GCN, N64 SNES, XBO, 360

3DS, DS, GBA, Vita, PSP, Android

AngryLittleAlchemist said:
Wyrdness said:

Too bad most of the contradictions from the Zelda fanbase aren't explained by it which is why it became a meme.

......What?

The "Zelda fanbase" is not an institution, it's not a group of people coming together and making a consensus, it's not the College of Twilight Princess Haters. It's just random people, most of who don't even know each other, that just so happen to like the overarching point of a series. 

These kind of points are made all the time, not specifically about the Zelda fanbase. Someone defends a game or series by making an unfunny mis-characterization of why people don't like it to try and make the opposition seem contradictory. And of course, that's really not how it works. People want something, and then it doesn't come to fruition the way they wanted it. They complain. They have the right to. 

I've seen more people articulate why they don't like x Zelda game than I have people who like it explain in-depth why so. That's because people who have an unpopular opinion are given more pressure to not only explain that opinion, but justify it (which is really unfair). If anything the Zelda fanbase is known for having some of the better critiques out there, considering how passionate the fans are, so I don't even really get the point. If every game was as simple as that unfunny "le asian speak" meme was, and people judged games on the most basic conceptual level possible, then you might have a point. 

For what it's worth you're free to think what you want. I'm not even talking about this from a personal perspective, as I don't really have any unpopular or edgy Zelda opinions. 

Yet here you are riled up over an old meme.

The Zelda fanbase has been known to flip flop on opinions which is why the meme came into being also coined as the Zelda cycle it was a running gag for over a decade, you've seen people articulate well whoopee want a medal because I've seen just as many do the opposite and make contradictory arguments. People have a right to complain yes but then people can also call out said complaints if they feel the are contradictions get over yourself.



Runa216 said:
Vini256 said:

 

So we can't say Wind Waker is mediocre but you can say Skyward Sword is awful? That is a double standard if I've ever seen one.

Also, Skyward Sword is one of my favorite games ever (If not my #1) while I consider BotW my biggest disappointment in gaming. Just so you know, really ;)

Saying one game is better than another is not a double standard. A double standard is refusing to apply the same rules of criticism to two separate things based solely on bias. 

Saying Wind Waker is bad is wrong because Wind Waker is amazing. 

Saying Skyward Sword is bad is a reasonable thing to say because that game is a broken tech demo for babies. 

One of these games are good and has already gone down as a timeless classic (Wind Waker), and the other has been mostly forgotten to time with video essays describing where it went wrong all over the place. Wind Waker got better review scores and sold better, Wind Waker has timeless art direction and animation, and isn't plagued with horribly sad and pathetic, broken motion controls. 

So you can dislike Wind Waker for its art style or whatever all you want. That doesn't make it a bad game. Me hating Skyward Sword for having core gameplay mechanics that are fundamentally broken and conveyance so detailed and spelled out for you that babies can play it is an actual critique of the game's quality. One is a bad game, the other is a game that has something you don't like. So no, it's not a double standard at all when the critiques for one are subjective and the critiques for the other are objective. 

You seem to have difficulty grasping that your opinion does not equal fact. You think Wind Waker is amazing, but that doesn't make it a fact, it's still just your opinion. An equally valid opinion is that Wind Waker's barren ocean, slow and boring sailing, and mediocre dungeons make it a weak entry.

Wyrdness said:

BOTW holds up quite well.

I feel like with games like RDR2 and AC: Odyssey we're starting to see BOTW's influence on the open world genre begin to take effect.



Runa216 said:

Saying one game is better than another is not a double standard. A double standard is refusing to apply the same rules of criticism to two separate things based solely on bias. 

Saying Wind Waker is bad is wrong because Wind Waker is amazing. 

Saying Skyward Sword is bad is a reasonable thing to say because that game is a broken tech demo for babies. 

One of these games are good and has already gone down as a timeless classic (Wind Waker), and the other has been mostly forgotten to time with video essays describing where it went wrong all over the place. Wind Waker got better review scores and sold better, Wind Waker has timeless art direction and animation, and isn't plagued with horribly sad and pathetic, broken motion controls. 

So you can dislike Wind Waker for its art style or whatever all you want. That doesn't make it a bad game. Me hating Skyward Sword for having core gameplay mechanics that are fundamentally broken and conveyance so detailed and spelled out for you that babies can play it is an actual critique of the game's quality. One is a bad game, the other is a game that has something you don't like. So no, it's not a double standard at all when the critiques for one are subjective and the critiques for the other are objective. 

Wow. 

With all due respect, but I'm not even going to bother replying properly to that, but hopefully someone more patient than me will.

Also, I don't even hate Wind Waker, I thoroughly enjoyed my playthrough of it on the Wii U.