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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - The Official Legend of Zelda Thread: BotW Sells 31.61M Units & TotK Sells 20.28M Units

 

Which Zelda game have you finished the most?

The Legend of Zelda 6 23.08%
 
A Link to the Past 11 42.31%
 
Link's Awakening 0 0%
 
Ocarina of Time 3 11.54%
 
Majora's Mask 0 0%
 
The Wind Waker 0 0%
 
Twilight Princess 4 15.38%
 
Skyward Sword 0 0%
 
Breath of the Wild 1 3.85%
 
Other 1 3.85%
 
Total:26
Roar_Of_War on 21 September 2018
RolStoppable said:
Roar_Of_War said:

There’s no need for long dungeons if they’re tons of smaller ones and a couple of middle sized ones (shrines and divine beasts)

Smaller but more can still have great puzzles and allow you to delve more into the exploration aspect of the game, while keeping the pace fast. Suddenly entering an hour long dungeon can be tedious when before that, you were hopping all over the overworld. People don’t want to be stuck in one place for that long.

Smaller works better for an open world. Bigger means less shrines more than likely and that means less to do in the world.

The overworld should be king. Taking the player away from that for too long is the kind of thing can make many players stop playing. 

I never mentioned puzzles, did I? It should be easy to infer that I was talking about Hyrule Castle, so that's what dungeon means. Not shrines and divine beasts that are stuffed with puzzles, but rather a maze with barely any puzzles.

Hyrule Castle was a real highlight in Breath of the Wild, and Hyrule Castle was huge. Additional dungeons don't need to be that big. Hyrule Castle is what gives Breath of the Wild its purpose as players explore the world and prepare to face the danger of Hyrule Castle. Dungeons would certainly be more interesting than divine beasts, because the beasts could be quite tedious due to a sheer endless running back and forth with almost no enemies in the way.

So more, smaller-like Hyrule Castle-type dungeons? Yeah, sounds good. I’m fine with that then, as long as they only replace the divine beasts and not the shrines necessarily. 

I sort of look at divine beasts as a new style of dungeon I suppose, but I guess they’re moreso like larger shrines with a boss, gimmick and larger scale reward than dungeons. Which I like in its own right, but they could just fit that into somewhat larger shrines without the bosses (maybe) and make more dungeons like Hyrule Castle. I can dig that.  

But my main point is, the focus needs to be on the overworld first. I don’t want so many large dungeons that take away from getting back to the overworld quickly. I want exploration and engaging traversial to mix in with my dungeon content at a good pace, without constantly being in hour-long dungeons. Let me get back to the overworld quickly, and make up for it with short and sweet smaller scale shrines, sidequests, shrine quests or whatever else is out there

Smaller and spread out should stay. That’s something I never knew I needed until BOTW showed me I needed it, and I don’t want to go back. 

Your first post made it sound like exploring in BOTW has no purpose because it lacks dungeons. Like em or not, the divine beasts still give purpose. So do memories. And the shrines. And especially your own example, Hyrule Castle. Adding more smaller Hyrule Castle-type dungeons is fine, but its not like that’s the only purpose. 

Last edited by Roar_Of_War - on 21 September 2018

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Roar_Of_War on 21 September 2018
Wyrdness said:
Roar_Of_War said:

There’s no need for long dungeons if they’re tons of smaller ones and a couple of middle sized ones (shrines and divine beasts)

Smaller but more can still have great puzzles and allow you to delve more into the exploration aspect of the game, while keeping the pace fast. Suddenly entering an hour long dungeon can be tedious when before that, you were hopping all over the overworld. People don’t want to be stuck in one place for that long.

Smaller works better for an open world. Bigger means less shrines more than likely and that means less to do in the world. Even if you add other things, why not both? The more interaction with the world, the better. 

The overworld should be king. Taking the player away from that for too long is the kind of thing can make many players stop playing. 

This 100%, for far too long in Zelda games the focal aspects have been things that take players out of the game's world what the series needs now is to focus on scenarios where things are executed in the open world like the example I gave earlier.

A Zelda game with out any dungeons but maintaining shrines is a good possibility under such examples where you replace dungeons with fleshed out open scenarios in the open world, picture instead of a dungeon you come to a region and you're drawn into a SOTC like quest instead of a dungeon then you go to another region and you run into a party of Bokoblins in a similar manner to the TP trailer out in the field and you have to deal with their antics in order to stop their raids on regions villages etc...

Dungeons have their place in the series but their significance to it should be further scaled back for more inventive progression scenarios for the games to really diversify how the adventure plays out.

Yeah, this is one thing I like about the shrine quests too. Although you do eventually go into a shrine just to collect the reward, the challenge is in the overworld and I freaking love that concept. Some of those were really cool, too. Its a good mix up and its another good idea from BOTW to expand upon in future games.

They made it technically connect to the shrine concept, but they don’t have to do that for the next game, and entering those shrines is more of a technicality than anything. They could easily change that into something that has nothing to do with the shrines or dungeons themselves and expand upon it further if they want.

Shrine quests are basically exactly that, just with a shrine popping out at the end. So the idea is there.

Last edited by Roar_Of_War - on 21 September 2018

S.Peelman on 22 September 2018
RolStoppable said:

The shrines are fine because they are short. The divine beasts, however, are the low point of BotW. They are huge elaborate puzzles and those are really the main reason why people stop playing a Zelda game; for Ocarina of Time the Water Temple in particular is often cited as a problem, and the Water Temple is a convoluted elaborate puzzle.

So basically a lot of people aren't intelligent enough to complete a Zelda game.

I agree with what you wrote though.



S.Peelman on 22 September 2018
RolStoppable said:
S.Peelman said:

So basically a lot of people aren't intelligent enough to complete a Zelda game.

I agree with what you wrote though.

I know someone in person who bought a player's guide for Ocarina of Time and still couldn't get past the Water Temple.

I assume that person's convinced there's a key missing?



S.Peelman on 22 September 2018

Look what I got my hands on lately all complete and in near perfect condition.

You Zelda fans can be jealous now.



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Veknoid_Outcast on 22 September 2018

^
Nice pick up!!



S.Peelman on 22 September 2018
Veknoid_Outcast said:
^
Nice pick up!!

One step closer to owning everything.



irstupid on 22 September 2018
Wyrdness said:
irstupid said:

As above person said, they are not mutually exclusive.

Imagine Breath fo the Wild game exactly how it is, but add on say four huge classic dungeons. Think of like the DLC where you got upgrades to the champions powers. Have the dungeons give you something like that. Or an outfit, or make the champions weapons unbreakable. Or instead of bringing parts to upgrade the slate, the slate is upgraded in dungeons.

Something that brings in the classic awesome puzzle solving huge dungeon, yet doesn't take away from the world openness and freedom to do anything as soon as you get the glider. 

Except classic puzzles are already in BOTW with out large dungeons, you know why big dungeons were dropped? Because they were tediously long segments that if a particular dungeon wasn't enjoyable you had to grind through it and the same would happen in an open world game if a player wanted to play through the story this is why they were cut down to simple concepts and shrines were added for puzzle solving as it made things more streamline and stuck to the concept of being easier to jump in and out of them when the player wants, this worked for the better.

If anything the next game should focus on making the world more intricate so the world itself is more interesting with out the need for dungeons like you see in some other games thus opening up the series to more options of approach for the adventure's structure for example I'd rather a scenario you go to a village and hear about something terrorising the area prompting you to track it down based on clues and what not SOTC style. As you close in on its domain the area of the world it's in things become more hazardous until you come to an area an realise the creature is afflicted by the same dark influence you need to deal with initiating a boss fight in the open world similar to the likes of the secret boss in the mountains in BOTW.

Such a scenario to me is more engaging than go to point a enter and clear dungeon, Zelda is missing such scenarios like these despite them being in other games because some people are fixated on dungeons being a pivotal part of the games when in fact they should be scaling back on them even more and implement more inventive scenarios like the example to give the games and their worlds a far more varied system of progression that makes the world in the games even more involving on top of the sandbox elements.

Did you miss the entire OPTIONAL part.

The giant dungeons would not be needed at all. You could skip them. 

Think of them like the Optional Tomb's in the new Tomb Raider games. 

There for people that like them, optional for those that are too dumb to figure them out or don't wnat to do them.



OTBWY on 22 September 2018
S.Peelman said:

Look what I got my hands on lately all complete and in near perfect condition.

You Zelda fans can be jealous now.

Not at all.



HoloDust on 22 September 2018

Less mass-market open world design, more dungeons intertwined into the world. No easy climbing, Link is neither spider nor ant - I find BotW so broken cause of it, that when you eventually get to Hyrule Castle it's piss easy to just skip most of it.
At this point I'd much rather have someone like From making next game, I don't have much faith in Nintendo when it comes to Zelda anymore.