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Forums - Politics Discussion - Racial Violence In the US

Mr Khan said:
Kasz216 said:
NintendoPie said:
Otakumegane said:

All the racial violence in U.S summarized in 1 comic.

Is this too graphic?

I think it might be a little too graphic.

Not sure I get it, either.


Basically the comic is showing how the crowd cares more about what the police officer is doing to the criminal by hurting his wrists, then the massive crimes said person has committed.

I'm assuming the point trying to be made is that the reason there is so much crime is because local communties tend to overlook the crimes of "Their own" and instead focus on others wrongdoings while ignoring what they've done.

 

Which to be fair is very common in the area I work at.  Though where I work at in Las Vegas there is no racial divide.    Black, Hispanic, White, everybody gets along perfectly fine, with "Battle lines" being drawn due to specific slights towards each other, and then people joining in, or just believing the side of the person they like more, assuming the other is completely to blame.  Hence there is no accountability or change in behavior.  When someone gets out of jail, it's the police's fault for arresting them, not that they stole someone or beat someone so bad they were put in a hospital, or the other guys fault for "starting" it by saying something stupid.

 

Also strangely enough it's rarely long lived.  I've seen a guy pull a knife on another guy's throat having to be convinced by someone else not to use it, and then seen those two people hang out and act like friends a week later.

It was always like that with guys i knew in high school. A few close friendships were started by guys kicking the shit out of each other...


Here I think it's more a shared feeling of disenfranchisement and knowing that most commited slights are done because everbody is trying to "get by".  If someone stole your car it's because they didn't have a car, and hell, you probably stole that car in the first place. 

 

Which is coincidentally why I think people don't look inside their own commuties at problems sometimes as the above comic suggests.  What's the point in improving your strategy if your convinced the game is rigged against you anyway.  It reminds me of this one "Race boardgame" lecture we had where a guy brought in a board game that more or less showed how frustrating such a thing can be for African Americans.  Funny enough my team progressed quick and "won" pretty fast, because I could figure out the trick to the game, while everybody else got stuck in an endless loop.

 

(Edit: The trick was you had a "Race" card you could play a couple times to avoid negative issues.  Essentially i forced my team to stay pateint until we were near the goal line, even giving up half progress or more, until we were within striking distance of the goal to where it would take the worst possible dice combination to occur twice to get us to lose.  He seemed annoyed we won quick, but really I thought that still made his point.)



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Soleron said:
FreeTalkLive said:
...

The inner city schools are the best funded in much of the country. Often times the rural schools are the least funded. I do agree that inner city schools are way over funded. Around $25,000 per year per student in DC. Students go to school for K through 12 which is 13 years, but many are held back a year so $25,000 per student times 14 is just too much money. In many rural areas the funding is only 1/3 that amount.

Alright. I guess I don't know many specifics about the US. If funding is that high, what is it about the schools that is preventing kids from going to college?

A few problems... big two?

The teachers union and administration union is the same.   Administrators are teachers with more seniority.  So when cuts are made, teachers are cut first.  Administrators generally aren't.

Inner city areas have low parental responsibilities and a lot of acting out.  So teachers often avoid these areas, a lot of the best teachers end up teaching in private schools that actually pay LESS because there are less issues.

Essentially this is why Magnet and charter schools work so well in poorer areas.  To stay in one of those schools the parents HAVE to make an effort.  They're suddenly forced to, it makes all the difference in the world.

How you fix the schools for everybody?  I'm not sure you can.  You need to fix the parents.  Oddly enough kicking kids OUT of school and not having school mandatory might ironically lead to more people learning as parents would get more involved.



Kasz216 said:
Soleron said:
FreeTalkLive said:
...

The inner city schools are the best funded in much of the country. Often times the rural schools are the least funded. I do agree that inner city schools are way over funded. Around $25,000 per year per student in DC. Students go to school for K through 12 which is 13 years, but many are held back a year so $25,000 per student times 14 is just too much money. In many rural areas the funding is only 1/3 that amount.

Alright. I guess I don't know many specifics about the US. If funding is that high, what is it about the schools that is preventing kids from going to college?

A few problems... big two?

The teachers union and administration union is the same.   Administrators are teachers with more seniority.  So when cuts are made, teachers are cut first.  Administrators generally aren't.

Inner city areas have low parental responsibilities and a lot of acting out.  So teachers often avoid these areas, a lot of the best teachers end up teaching in private schools that actually pay LESS because there are less issues.

Essentially this is why Magnet and charter schools work so well in poorer areas.  To stay in one of those schools the parents HAVE to make an effort.  They're suddenly forced to, it makes all the difference in the world.

How you fix the schools for everybody?  I'm not sure you can.  You need to fix the parents.  Oddly enough kicking kids OUT of school and not having school mandatory might ironically lead to more people learning as parents would get more involved.

But then you would have to account for the ones that just honestly didn't give a shit, though i can see the benefits of your idea otherwise.



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Mr Khan said:
Kasz216 said:
Soleron said:
FreeTalkLive said:
...

The inner city schools are the best funded in much of the country. Often times the rural schools are the least funded. I do agree that inner city schools are way over funded. Around $25,000 per year per student in DC. Students go to school for K through 12 which is 13 years, but many are held back a year so $25,000 per student times 14 is just too much money. In many rural areas the funding is only 1/3 that amount.

Alright. I guess I don't know many specifics about the US. If funding is that high, what is it about the schools that is preventing kids from going to college?

A few problems... big two?

The teachers union and administration union is the same.   Administrators are teachers with more seniority.  So when cuts are made, teachers are cut first.  Administrators generally aren't.

Inner city areas have low parental responsibilities and a lot of acting out.  So teachers often avoid these areas, a lot of the best teachers end up teaching in private schools that actually pay LESS because there are less issues.

Essentially this is why Magnet and charter schools work so well in poorer areas.  To stay in one of those schools the parents HAVE to make an effort.  They're suddenly forced to, it makes all the difference in the world.

How you fix the schools for everybody?  I'm not sure you can.  You need to fix the parents.  Oddly enough kicking kids OUT of school and not having school mandatory might ironically lead to more people learning as parents would get more involved.

But then you would have to account for the ones that just honestly didn't give a shit, though i can see the benefits of your idea otherwise.

Would we have to though?  Afterall these are people not being accounted for anyway since they're people who likely aren't going to pass anyway and mostly just get in the way of other people learning.

The sad truth of life is that you can't account for everybody no matter how hard you try.

There will always be people who will march against their best interest.  No matter how much effort and time you spend you can't feed someone who refuses to eat handouts. 

We have a homeless problem mostly because people refuse to take advantage of the shelters, because you can't be drunk in a shelter for obvious saftey reasons.

All you can do is provide the oppurtunity and hope people take advantage of it.   Putting resources towards people who don't want those resources and won't use them only ends up bringing everyone down with no benefit.

Anyone who's had a drug addict as a friend or relative can tell you that.

 

I mean, it's galling that we're talking about kids paying the price because their parents are too irresponsible to push them, but I mean... what's the option?  Take kids from their parents because they aren't making sure they are doing their math homework?

I learned a long time ago that as much as you want to shake people into having some sense and force them into not being violently selfdestructive it's nothing but a futile effort that does nothing but cause resentment and often causes them to get farther away from sane decision making because they have someone else to blame.   Also it totally ruins your day.



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Yeah true enough. Government shouldn't step over the line from offering and promoting the help to forcing it on people.



Mr Khan said:
mrstickball said:
Unfortunately, the vast majority of crimes are caused by minorities in the US. If you removed blacks and hispanics from crime statistics, the United States has a crime rate that is well inside the median of European standards (something like 1.1 murders per 100,000 instead of ~3.9).

So the solution is to look at why minorities cause so much more crime. Unemployment, education, and a lack of opportunities are powerful driving forces. Educated minorities with college educations (even just 1 year of education) see murder rates drop by 80-90%, and are very similar to whites in regards to crime. So I think there's a lot that has to be done for those growing up in the ghettos that graduate only a fraction of minorities. Unfortunately, its a cyclical mess, because such issues keep continuing.

Like Soleron said, drug legalization is an important step. I think that education has to really be taken care of in urban areas - the public education system in major cities is ensuring that minorities cannot get themselves out of welfare and systemic poverty. Additionally, I think welfare programs have to be removed or become very focused on goal-oriented, temporary assistance. If and when minorities can improve their lot, there will be a lot less strife - after all, the successful minorities (Asians, for example) simply do not have these problems.

I agree with your second option on welfare. If you're not too disabled to work, welfare should be working to enable your betterment: training or education for whichever jobs are in demand in your area. Likewise, food stamps should only go for healthy food.

Also, Asians have a lot of gangs; especially immigrants from poorer parts of Asia who tend to bring their gangs with them.


Oh, I do not doubt that there are many horrible Asian gangs that are in the US. Even then, you still have less crime amongst Asian immigrants than you do whites, blacks, or hispanics. I'm sure there may be multiple reasons, but they do (stereotypically) have higher median grades than whites do. Every color has problems - of this I have no doubt. But if you have more poor, stupid <insert race>, then you simply have more problems. Doesn't matter if they're white, black, or whatever. Its just a universal fact.



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Soleron said:
mrstickball said:

I think that education has to really be taken care of in urban areas - the public education system in major cities is ensuring that minorities cannot get themselves out of welfare and systemic poverty. Additionally, I think welfare programs have to be removed or become very focused on goal-oriented, temporary assistance. If and when minorities can improve their lot, there will be a lot less strife - after all, the successful minorities (Asians, for example) simply do not have these problems.

Schools should be evenly funded (instead of varying by local taxes), and as a temporary measure the inner city schools should recieve more funding to create better facilities and attract the best teachers that can perhaps get more to go to college. Every student that is able to go to college from these areas needs to feel he or she can afford it - fully paid scholarships should not be limited to a certain number or require competitive application. The investment will be paid back as soon as these people don't end up in prison (very expensive) and get a job that contributes to the economy.

The problem is that most inner-city schools *do* get a lot more funding than rural schools. For example, DC and Detroit have the worst graduation rates in the USA. They cost $14,000 and $20,000 per student to teach, respectively. The reality is that in the US, there is no correlation to costs and performance. I'd have no problem with a temporary increase in funding for bad schools, but its never worked in America, as far as I can tell. Where I live, our schools spend between $5,300 and $8,500 per student. The school that spends $8,500 has the worst graduation rate (82% - mind you, Detroit is sub-40%), and the school that spends $5,300 graduates about 94% of kids (the other two schools are about $7,000 each and graduate ~90%).



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Nightwish224 said:
The U.S. is so focused on race & ethnicity. I feel when we focus too much on this, and it really just creates divisions between our nation.

This one really doesn't have a lot to do with the interracial tensions and the US, but rather between US, Cuba, and Mexico.



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outlawauron said:
Nightwish224 said:
The U.S. is so focused on race & ethnicity. I feel when we focus too much on this, and it really just creates divisions between our nation.

This one really doesn't have a lot to do with the interracial tensions and the US, but rather between US, Cuba, and Mexico.

My statement can really be applied to either aspect (whether individual people in the U.S., or other nations). We've always been focused on it and it will forever be a main talking point.



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