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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - From A Skeptic: Where Nintendo Should Take The Wii U

S.T.A.G.E. on 09 January 2013
osed125 said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:
osed125 said:
ninjablade said:

i think people forget that nintendo gave up on the gamers market, they admitted they were looking for a different market with wii and they found it. the only problem is IMO that market is not the kind market you can rely on, its not a market like the 360/ps3/apple where you upgrade the tech, and people will be all over it, its a market where you have to creat something totaly unique and captivating and that market is a hit or miss, mostly miss though.

I would love to see a link where Nintendo said that...

Nintendo only said they were expanding their market in both casual and cores (although they never said those exact words I believe). Nintendo knows they have lost some of the core gamers during the Wii and the Wii U is their answer to get them back, whether they will fulfill that or not is another discussion.  

I think what he failed to say is that Nintendo doesn't follow the gamers they create into adulthood. Those who stay behind, really do so of their own accord. Sony hasn't had a problem taking those gamers away and neither does Microsoft. They consider their consoles the step ladder from Nintendos.

That is mostly based on opinions. A lot of adults play a lot of Nintendo franchises till this day. I see it that all over the internet. If you feel Nintendo franchises are for kids then that's your opinion and It doesn't reflect the gaming market. I don't see Sony or MS "taking" those gamers, most gamers will play on all consoles (and enjoy their games), they will obviously have preferences, but that doesn't mean they are taking them.


I edited my post, check back again.



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osed125 on 09 January 2013
S.T.A.G.E. said:
osed125 said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:
osed125 said:
ninjablade said:

i think people forget that nintendo gave up on the gamers market, they admitted they were looking for a different market with wii and they found it. the only problem is IMO that market is not the kind market you can rely on, its not a market like the 360/ps3/apple where you upgrade the tech, and people will be all over it, its a market where you have to creat something totaly unique and captivating and that market is a hit or miss, mostly miss though.

I would love to see a link where Nintendo said that...

Nintendo only said they were expanding their market in both casual and cores (although they never said those exact words I believe). Nintendo knows they have lost some of the core gamers during the Wii and the Wii U is their answer to get them back, whether they will fulfill that or not is another discussion.  

I think what he failed to say is that Nintendo doesn't follow the gamers they create into adulthood. Those who stay behind, really do so of their own accord. Sony hasn't had a problem taking those gamers away and neither does Microsoft. They consider their consoles the step ladder from Nintendos.

That is mostly based on opinions. A lot of adults play a lot of Nintendo franchises till this day. I see it that all over the internet. If you feel Nintendo franchises are for kids then that's your opinion and It doesn't reflect the gaming market. I don't see Sony or MS "taking" those gamers, most gamers will play on all consoles (and enjoy their games), they will obviously have preferences, but that doesn't mean they are taking them.


I edited my post, check back again.

I edited the post after the link.



Nintendo and PC gamer

S.T.A.G.E. on 09 January 2013
osed125 said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:
osed125 said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:
osed125 said:
ninjablade said:

i think people forget that nintendo gave up on the gamers market, they admitted they were looking for a different market with wii and they found it. the only problem is IMO that market is not the kind market you can rely on, its not a market like the 360/ps3/apple where you upgrade the tech, and people will be all over it, its a market where you have to creat something totaly unique and captivating and that market is a hit or miss, mostly miss though.

I would love to see a link where Nintendo said that...

Nintendo only said they were expanding their market in both casual and cores (although they never said those exact words I believe). Nintendo knows they have lost some of the core gamers during the Wii and the Wii U is their answer to get them back, whether they will fulfill that or not is another discussion.  

I think what he failed to say is that Nintendo doesn't follow the gamers they create into adulthood. Those who stay behind, really do so of their own accord. Sony hasn't had a problem taking those gamers away and neither does Microsoft. They consider their consoles the step ladder from Nintendos.

That is mostly based on opinions. A lot of adults play a lot of Nintendo franchises till this day. I see it that all over the internet. If you feel Nintendo franchises are for kids then that's your opinion and It doesn't reflect the gaming market. I don't see Sony or MS "taking" those gamers, most gamers will play on all consoles (and enjoy their games), they will obviously have preferences, but that doesn't mean they are taking them.


I edited my post, check back again.

I edited the post after the link.


Microsoft and Sony know Nintendos predicament with the rapidly aging core audience that grew up with Nintendo. Nintendo will always (and I mean always) have the children. Those are their most stable sales.



osed125 on 09 January 2013
S.T.A.G.E. said:
osed125 said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:
osed125 said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:
osed125 said:
ninjablade said:

i think people forget that nintendo gave up on the gamers market, they admitted they were looking for a different market with wii and they found it. the only problem is IMO that market is not the kind market you can rely on, its not a market like the 360/ps3/apple where you upgrade the tech, and people will be all over it, its a market where you have to creat something totaly unique and captivating and that market is a hit or miss, mostly miss though.

I would love to see a link where Nintendo said that...

Nintendo only said they were expanding their market in both casual and cores (although they never said those exact words I believe). Nintendo knows they have lost some of the core gamers during the Wii and the Wii U is their answer to get them back, whether they will fulfill that or not is another discussion.  

I think what he failed to say is that Nintendo doesn't follow the gamers they create into adulthood. Those who stay behind, really do so of their own accord. Sony hasn't had a problem taking those gamers away and neither does Microsoft. They consider their consoles the step ladder from Nintendos.

That is mostly based on opinions. A lot of adults play a lot of Nintendo franchises till this day. I see it that all over the internet. If you feel Nintendo franchises are for kids then that's your opinion and It doesn't reflect the gaming market. I don't see Sony or MS "taking" those gamers, most gamers will play on all consoles (and enjoy their games), they will obviously have preferences, but that doesn't mean they are taking them.


I edited my post, check back again.

I edited the post after the link.


Microsoft and Sony know Nintendos predicament with the rapidly aging core audience that grew up with Nintendo. Nintendo will always (and I mean always) have the children. Those are their most stable sales.

That won't always be the case. I'm not denying a lot of Nintendo franchise are targeted towards kids, but gamers will still play those games, either being for nostalgia, because they still like it or just to play a good game. And I think that's the reason Nintendo software usually sells very well. 

I personally only see Mario and Kirby as "true" kids games (not counting games like Nintendogs, Wii Sports and those ones). The rest of their franchises (although I'm probably forgetting some games) are mostly targeted to young kids and teenagers. 



Nintendo and PC gamer

ninjablade on 09 January 2013
osed125 said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:
osed125 said:
ninjablade said:

i think people forget that nintendo gave up on the gamers market, they admitted they were looking for a different market with wii and they found it. the only problem is IMO that market is not the kind market you can rely on, its not a market like the 360/ps3/apple where you upgrade the tech, and people will be all over it, its a market where you have to creat something totaly unique and captivating and that market is a hit or miss, mostly miss though.

I would love to see a link where Nintendo said that...

Nintendo only said they were expanding their market in both casual and cores (although they never said those exact words I believe). Nintendo knows they have lost some of the core gamers during the Wii and the Wii U is their answer to get them back, whether they will fulfill that or not is another discussion.  

I think what he failed to say is that Nintendo doesn't follow the gamers they create into adulthood. Those who stay behind, really do so of their own accord. Sony hasn't had a problem taking those gamers away and neither does Microsoft. They consider their consoles the step ladder from Nintendos.

That is mostly based on opinions. A lot of adults play a lot of Nintendo franchises till this day. I see it that all over the internet. If you feel Nintendo franchises are for kids then that's your opinion and It doesn't reflect the gaming market. I don't see Sony or MS "taking" those gamers, most gamers will play on all consoles (and enjoy their games), they will obviously have preferences, but that doesn't mean they are taking them.

Edit: at your post above. That purely PR talk, Nintendo gamers didn't "graduate" and move to other platforms. The Wii sold a lot because it was targeted to casuals (nobody argues that), but a lot of those sells come from gamers who want to play Zelda, Mario, Metroid, etc. If the gamer had desires to play 3rd party games they would simple buy a 360, PS3 or a PC, but some gamers didn't "move on" from Nintendo. 

yes adults do play nintendo games, thats not what i'm talking about though, what i'm saying is they can't compete with sony and microsoft in the gamers market, the part about you saying alote of those sales came from people wanting to play nintendo games is false, just look at gamecube's system sales, and nintendo was way more populer with gamers at that time. most of the wii  sales came from none gamers and children.



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Solid-Stark on 10 January 2013

It needs more Nintendo gamez.



e=mc^2

Gaming on: PS4 Pro, Switch, SNES Mini, Wii U, PC (i5-7400, GTX 1060)

theRepublic on 10 January 2013
Mr Khan said:
bdbdbd said:
@Mr.Khan: I think the problem with Other M was that it was just a bad game. If it weren't for the family friendly image, I think Sakamoto had put tentacles in it.

It's a chicken-and-egg question. Did it fail to gain mass appeal because it was a bad game, or was its attempts to have broader appeal (more story, simpler controls, more overtly linear gameplay) what made it a "bad" game? (I rather liked the game, tbh)

Metroid is close, however. A game like that would fit the bill; thematically fitting for older teens or young adults, distinctly Nintendo, but something with a gameplay style more in line with what the mainstream-core wants.

Considering how little story is in the top selling games, I don't think that really does much to add appeal.  If you go down the list of the top 50 or 100 selling games of all time you will see what I mean.

I would actually argue that the controls for this game are more of a hassle than they were for Prime 3.  Prime 3 was a point and shoot interface with a stick for movement.  Simple.  This is a 3D game played with a D-pad, which I thought we decided was bad with the original Playstation.  Then you have to quickly switch how you are holding the controller in the middle of a fight to be able to use missles.  Things are fast enough in hard mode that the only way to fire a super missle is to charge first while you can still dodge, then go into first person mode once you are charged.  That way you are ready to fire the super missle immediately.  But let me tell you, pointing the controller at the screen while still holding the 1 button is hard on the hands.



Switch Code: SW-7377-9189-3397 -- Nintendo Network ID: theRepublic -- Steam ID: theRepublic

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bdbdbd on 10 January 2013






Mr Khan said:

It's a chicken-and-egg question. Did it fail to gain mass appeal because it was a bad game, or was its attempts to have broader appeal (more story, simpler controls, more overtly linear gameplay) what made it a "bad" game? (I rather liked the game, tbh)


Metroid is close, however. A game like that would fit the bill; thematically fitting for older teens or young adults, distinctly Nintendo, but something with a gameplay style more in line with what the mainstream-core wants.


How is more story making something more appealing? It's the complete opposite. Different forms of entertainment have different tasks in peoples minds/lives. As the story is told via videos, that's only keeping you away from playing the game.

If there was a videogame that had chapter of a (bad) novel that you'd had to read every time you compele a level, would you be interested in the game? Likely not.

I don't know if the controls are simple, as switching from 2D to 3D isn't that great, and the bigger problem is that the gameplay changes radically with the change from 2D.

The gameplay is way too linear, as you have virtually no control over what you can do, granted, it's a lot easier than finding your way in Metroid.

Basically the game was made with a handful of stereotypes in mind, that eventually resulted in a game that lacked the appeal.







S.T.A.G.E. said:

"Yeah, absolutely. I think that there's a difference in the type of customer that is buying the Wii. When you think about it, there's a difference between trying to be the number one console with nine year old gamers, and being the console that offers the most experiences from 13 to 33.

Oh damn you, didn't we already have our laughs with Greenberg back in 08? The context Greenberg is talking about is Wii being the most popular console in all the age groups except 15-20 (or was it 13-17) yo. Everything under and above was dominated by Wii.






S.T.A.G.E. said:


Super Mario is not intended to be a "hardcore" character. I've studied color theory and Mario was created to attract children on a mainstream level after the arcade days. His cartoon style is created not for adults but to attract children (just like he attracted me and I am sure you as well), and primary colors are also in his outfit which are very attractive pigments to children. Nintendo knew what they were doing when they had Miyamoto create him. Sure you can be a hardcore fan of Mario, but Mario is not a hardcore character he's a light hearted, fat plumber who saves a princess who wont give him any (shhhh dont tell the kids that).






Yes... And everything would change if he was gray and cepia. I don't know if colours were due to appeal, as much as it was because of the black background, where you had to have characters that were clearly visible. The colourscheme of most characters that started on the 70's and 80's hardware, is mostly due to technical limitations than the appeal (ie. the colours needed to be bright).

As an industrial designer, Miyamoto most likely has an idea how different colours and different shapes and surfaces appeal to different people, but that's not the point, as the most hardcore character can't be determined by any other means that what it stands for gameplaywise. When you ask someone for the most hardcore character, the question is answered by this logic: "I'm hardcore, I like this game, the game has a character A, therefore character A is the most hardcore character", when in reality the chacter is secondary to a game he's in.



Ei Kiinasti.

Eikä Japanisti.

Vaan pannaan jalalla koreasti.

 

Nintendo games sell only on Nintendo system.

bdbdbd on 10 January 2013

^WTF! Unable to edit, sry.



Ei Kiinasti.

Eikä Japanisti.

Vaan pannaan jalalla koreasti.

 

Nintendo games sell only on Nintendo system.

Osc89 on 10 January 2013
Mr Khan said:
Osc89 said:
Soundwave said:

3.) Create (or buy) a flagship "hardcore" character IP -- Mario paves the way for a lot of the mascot/cartoon/license based content that floods Nintendo consoles, but Nintendo really doesn't have a similar beacon for the older audience. You could always let Retro try their hand at a new IP, or go find one to publish. I suggested for risk-averse Nintendo to approach the folkes at Danjaq/EON productions, who own the James Bond license. Bond is cool, Bond is easy to market, if the rights are available, perhaps Nintendo could get them (or perhaps just rights to Bond FPS games). A Bond game with the same effort put into it as a Mario or Zelda would sell an easy 3-4 million and then other developers could look at that and say "oh, I guess there is an audience for something edgier here after all". 


What about Metroid? That's what I think of when "hardcore" Nintento is mentioned. They just need to boost Samus to mascot status (or more than she already is).

1) Welcome to the forums

2) Not really viable. They tried that with Other M (to an extent) and it just ended up pleasing nobody. Metroid works best as a third tier Nintendo franchise (as much as i hate to say that) and should be given attention only after tier 1 games (like Mario Kart, 2D Mario, Pokemon, and Wii _____) and tier 2 games (3D Mario, Kirby, and Zelda)

Thank you! As for Other M, the only complaints I've heard were regarding the characterization of Samus. This could be easily fixed by having her as a silent protagonist, more like Gordan Freeman. He's more adult and very iconic.

It would be pretty cool to see Nintendo start a new hardcore IP, but their strengths tend to lie in building up long-standing franchises. Plus I doubt they would go all in on promoting a newer riskier character, which you kind of need to do if you want them to be any kind of mascot. Microsoft managed it with Master Chief, but they went all in and didn't have much else competing for attention at the time. Anything Nintendo puts out will be quickly overshadowed by anything from tier 1 or tier 2. They have strong mascots already, and more than the competition.



PSN: Osc89

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