By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - Sony - Sony Won't Release PS4 until 2014 and It Won't Be a Gimped Console.

Dodece said:

Sony is a conglomerate, and since I doubt the word means anything to you I will expain it to you. A conglomerate is a company that has divisions that actually do business in a lot of unrelated industries. On the whole Sony's divisions that are doing badly are losing more money then the divisions that are doing well. Basically the console divisions profits are being spent covering losses, and the losses are still greater then the gains. Which is why Sony has been forced to offer up stock option bonds, and has had to delve into its financial reserves to cover the difference. The companies cash reserves are finite, and the company is hardly credit worthy. So Sony is finding it harder to borrow. So no it doesn't mean anything, and it has nothing to do with it being Sony. I would apply this same logic to any other company in this exact same position.

I suppose you would argue that people who have cancer should just roll over and die too. A company in dire straights isn't a company without hope. Maybe the company won't survive this situation, but then again maybe it will. It is entirely possible that Sony could fester five years, and suddenly come out with another break out hit. That turns into a cash generating machine. That said I think you need to grow up, and act like the age your profile says you are. I don't know what kind of world you are living in, but sometimes in this life companies just like people have to do things to get by. If your family is starving, and you have to crawl around in pig shit all day long to feed them. Then that is what you do. You don't give up until there isn't a single chance left. The management, employees, and the stock holders of Sony need this company to carry on. Throwing a shit fit, and walking away from their responsibilities isn't a option. They will keep trying until they find a way or run out of chances, and that is just how it is.

Nintendo lost the console wars, but that isn't the same as getting the stuffing beat out of them. The difference being that Nintendo didn't lose money trying. They sold their hardware at a profit, sold a lot of their own first party software, and had the best selling portable gaming device. Nintendo actually did quite well for itself. It is a object lesson in going with the flow. Nintendo didn't need to dominate the market as a whole to be successful. They just needed to cater to a market of loyal consumers. Which was large enough to sustain the company in the industry. Sony would do well to learn some of these lessons from Nintendo. That is how Nintendo wasn't trounced, and this is how Sony was.

Others have shown you the graphs that show you how much Sony lost. The past generation is the text book definition of a Pyrrhic victory. Those losses probably don't even take into account the seven hundred million dollars in loans that Sony has to pay interest on that it took out to fund production of the PS3, or the overhaul of the online security that had to happen, because of the whole jailbreaking fiasco. That saw Sony getting hacked every other day for about two whole months straight. The answer to your question would seem to be self apparent. Were Sony to eat such losses again the company would likely go bankrupt, but you can relax. Sony wouldn't bankrupt the company to salvage a PS4 doing that poorly. No they would just abandon the product.

Propaganda isn't a substitute for facts. I hope you understand that if you continue on this route. All you are going to get for your effort is pulverized. Think what you want about this community, but we aren't slouches. We know a great deal about what we are talking about, and many of us have been on this site since the start of this past generation. We have a real good grasp of what happened, when it happened, and why it happened. Sony basically created a hostage situation that it couldn't walk away from. They couldn't allow the PS3 to die like it ought to have, because it would have destroyed their chip business, their new media format, their software studios, and their home console line. They were pot committed, and they were going to lose a lot of money no matter which way they went.


Excellent post, impressed you had the patience to be honest as I find his posting style obnoxious.



Around the Network

I still say they will go after Nintendo. With a mid priced console, but instead of making a tablet, like the WiiU, they will put all the money into powerful insides. It will be less than the new Xbox - and they will promote their games, fun, and perhaps 4k movie playback.

Thus you would get something priced just a little bit higher than the WiiU, but all horsepower, and no extra screen. (Like they went after the 3DS with the same pricing.) It will more affordable, and yes, they will still say it does everything.

I think they have to launch in 2013.



 

Really not sure I see any point of Consol over PC's since Kinect, Wii and other alternative ways to play have been abandoned. 

Top 50 'most fun' game list coming soon!

 

Tell me a funny joke!

Dodece said:
Excuse me while I point out the Elephant in the room. All the speculation in this thread thus far has revolved around what Sony needs to do to win, or what Sony needs to do to keep from losing. Maybe what we should be discussing is survival strategies. Whether some here want to believe it or not. Sony isn't the company it was a decade ago. They have lost money for five straight years, and that is in spite of selling large chunks of the company off, and actually using credit to cover operating expenses. Sony is neck deep in debt, and that isn't any kind of a exaggeration.

Meanwhile Microsoft and Nintendo aren't the companies they were five years ago in this space. While Sony got weaker they went, and got a hell of a lot stronger. Nintendo just came off of a home console that printed them money, and was a smash hit. Microsoft is coming off a very profitable console thanks to their subscription scheme, and more importantly they used all that money to fund expansion. While Sony on the whole has shed studios, exclusive franchises, and reputation. Microsoft has increased its number of studios. Created a number of franchises, and has only seen its reputation improve over the coarse of the previous generation.

The whole point of this diatribe is this. Sony is crippled, and its competitors are in peak physical conditioning. We are really talking about long odds. Sony could make a run at the prize, but rest assured that the exertion really could destroy them. There isn't any reason at all that Microsoft shouldn't just outspend Sony out of the gate. Microsoft has proven that it has no qualms about loss leading on its hardware, or about bribing third parties to get preferential treatment. Nintendo has opted for a positional advantage, and that means they will be protecting a lead. Rather then being forced to assail the lead. They get all the advantages that more time brings.

To me that means Sony has to be more pragmatic then it has been in the previous generation. Which means that they have to be looking for a happy medium. They need to look for a pace that will let them place without overexerting themselves in the process. Further more the longer they hang in there. The greater the chance for a turn around in their fortunes. What they really need is a strategy that will let them hang in there.

So if you are thinking about a 2013 launch. Then you have to expect a compromise on the hardware front. Either Sony has to tone back their capabilities to make a profit from the hardware, or they have to go off on a tangent. Whichever way is the most profitable out of the gate. In this scenario money gives Sony more time. If you are thinking of a 2014 launch then the hardware can be competitive at a profitable price point.

I honestly think Sony has some good options here. More then most of you seem to think. Once you think outside of terms of black and white, winning or losing. You can see how Sony can do well for itself without conquering this marketplace. It seems to me that too many of you keep thinking of Sony in terms of Giant on the Playground. When it is fact now the runt of the litter. They can't brute force things, and get their way anymore. They tried that last generation, and got the stuffing beat out of them.

Sony isn't the Champion anymore it is the Underdog. The sooner that little tidbit sinks in the better, and as the Underdog. Their path to success doesn't involve them playing the game the other guys are going to play. They have to opt for guile, patience, or surprise. Which is how Nintendo moved up. They knew they couldn't win a fight pound for pound against Sony and Microsoft. So they changed the equation. Anyway does anyone here have the slightest desire of discussing what Sony should do outside of playing only to win.

Very good post! Your contribution to this thread is very insightful and good - too bad it falls on deaf ears...



I'm on Twitter @DanneSandin!

Furthermore, I think VGChartz should add a "Like"-button.

Sony wants to get rid of PS3 and fast, as no matter how much they are able to cut costs of PS3, it will always be expensive to manufacture, whereas PS4 could be relatively cheap hardware (and the continued success of PS3 would harm PS4 sales). Unlike PS2 and PS3, Sony needed PS2 to make money to recoup some of the losses PS3 made, the situation is completely different this gen with PS3 and PS4.

Sony needs a console that can turn profit quickly (and it needs it out and fast), as Sonys financial position, as opposed to MS and Nintendo, could be described as a kitten fighting two ferocius lions. The analogy was good in the sense, that MS and Nintendo both want to get rid of Sony. I don't think either of those two are that much interested in fighting each other, than they are interested in finishing Sony off, as Sony poses a much bigger threat for both than Nintendo poses to MS or MS poses to Nintendo.

Sony's actions depend pretty much what the investors think, especially when the companys worst competitor, Samsung, posted around 8,5 billion USD in profit for the last quarter of 2012. Looking at how low Nintendo's stock went with the loss-leading strategy (even if they can turn it into profit rather quickly), it's a clear indicator what investors think about the strategy. Sony needs to give a clear indication that they are not going to lose billions once again.

And when considering the Playstation-brand, SCE isn't independent unit anymore, so they need to release PS4 by the demands of other functions in the same unit. Walkman comeback to fund PS4?
They need to play it safe, as if PS4 isn't turning profit, Playstation is more likely to turn into a Steam-like service, a direction Sony already have taken.







EdHieron said:







bdbdbd said:
@EdHieron: 1&2 then why they are playing games on consoles and not on PC, which has the graphics horsepower in completely different spheres?

3 You don't think they will be selling the console at a huge loss, like they did the PS2 and PS3?


Because consoles are more consumer friendly ( ie. you can sit in a comfotable chair with your feet up while playing them) and they cost much less than gaming pcs (ie. less than $500.00 Versus $2,000.00 for a decent system that requires upgrades every two years to keep up).


 


The thought is that they will be selling the consoles at a huge loss.  They could build a console for $500.00 using the best tech that money would buy and release it at that cost without having a huge loss on each console sold.




So, now you're saying gamers care about comfortability, not graphics?







PScollector said:
Lol at everyone thinking Sony is going 2 go bankrupt, its not going 2 happen.


I agree. Which is why people are pointing out Sony needs to go a route where it makes a console that can generate profit and fast.

Besides, SCE already faced bankrupcy a couple of years ago, when it stopped being an independent division due to generating only losses.

Ei Kiinasti.

Eikä Japanisti.

Vaan pannaan jalalla koreasti.

 

Nintendo games sell only on Nintendo system.

Zappykins said:
I still say they will go after Nintendo. With a mid priced console, but instead of making a tablet, like the WiiU, they will put all the money into powerful insides. It will be less than the new Xbox - and they will promote their games, fun, and perhaps 4k movie playback.

Thus you would get something priced just a little bit higher than the WiiU, but all horsepower, and no extra screen. (Like they went after the 3DS with the same pricing.) It will more affordable, and yes, they will still say it does everything.

I think they have to launch in 2013.


That's what they're probably already doing though, with out a tablet controller it's questionable how much extra power they'd really get because going from the suppose manufacturing costs of the tablet they'd have an extra 40 or so quid as it's said to cost about 60 quid to make. They get more horsepower from it then the U but it'll be a difference of GC to Xbox which won't be significant, granted it'd be a step in the right direction being more affordable but then the's an issue of if the next Xbox uses a trait like a tablet controller and such which would leave PS4 as the only console with out a unique stand out trait. It's certainly a hard situation to tackle.



Around the Network
EdHieron said:
bdbdbd said:
@EdHieron: Wii sales fell off in 2005-2006? WTF?


In Japan the PS2 was still beating the 360 until fairly recently in sales.  Probably it was receiving some relevant level of sales until 2010 like Wii.  As I said they're both being retired at about the same time.  Sony has stopped producing PS2 consoles and Nintendo seems to have stopped making any real effort with the original Wii.

 

In the bigger picture, the 7th Gen is going to be remembered primarily as the era of the advent of HD Graphics in home video games (since Wii U is the first Nintendo console with HD video output and since it's really only more powerful versus 360 and PS3 in about the same respect as Wii to PS2 and not even to the extent that 360 and PS3 are to Wii, then Wii U should be considered Nintendo's 7th Gen console).  Since the original Wii was never capable of outputting HD visuals, then it really shouldn't be counted as a 7th Gen console.

umm..i dont think it works that way..sorry!



Nintendo Network ID = itsJabby

EdHieron said:
Chandler said:
EdHieron said:
cheese_man said:
EdHieron said:

However, the most important reason in my opinion that we won't see PS4 in stores in 2013 is that Sony's not going to release it until after the Playstation 3 has finally passed the Xbox 360


What does this matter and how does it make it the most important reason? No really, I genuinely don't understand, do they want to advertise as being the 2nd most popular console of last gen so you should buy a ps4?

Also why can't they continue to profit from the ps3 after the ps4 launch? Ps3 may even outsell the ps4/xb3 early on.


I think when it's all said and done 360 and PS3 will be considered a different gen from the Wii.  Especially since Wii stopped selling in dramatic numbers some time ago and 360 and PS3 had well over 50% of the 7th gen's marketshare.


I heard Sony and MS also share a bank account. Oh wait, they don't. Stop lumping them together. Wii beat you, get over it.

 

I hope the PS4 releases the same day Pokemon does. I want to see what happens.


The PS3 will pass Wii in 2015 (2014 in Japan).

hahahahahahaha



Nintendo Network ID = itsJabby

DanneSandin said:
EdHieron said:
DanneSandin said:
 

You're really predicting their doom imo...

First off; if Sony launches in late 2014, it wouldn't be a ONE years head start; it would be TWO years head start - since Wii U lanuched late in 2012. Secondly, it wasn't until AFTER the price drop the PS3 really picked up steam, so launching one year after x3ox with a higher price tag wouldn't benefit PS4, and soon they'd have to cut the price (like they did with PS3) and they'd be losing money (like with the PS3). Not a good strategy.

And with this strategy they would lose in Japan AND EU. Japanese aren't "graphic whores", meaning they would settle for something less powerful than a beastly PS4; enter Wii U. With a two years head start AND much cheaper price point they're set to dominate in Japan leaving the PS4 in the dust. And you gotta remember that EU is in a bad financial situation, which means that should x3ox launch one year a head with a cheaper price point Sony surely would lose that market as well leaving them with nothing. Launching at $500 would more or less guarantee a €500 price tag in EU, which translate to $650 - and that's something Europeans aren't ready to pay right now...

With your strategy Sony would ONLY attract old PS-fans, and not gaining anything else. This would be their last console.


Yeah, there were a lot of people predicting Sony's demise when it was announced that the PS3 would cost $600 at E3 2006, yet being the best selling console in the world week after week 6 years later would beg to differ.

Seeing as how 720's not going to be that cheap when it launches there wouldn't be that much difference in sales generated between a $400 and $500 (~500EU versus ~600EU) price tag in Europe initially (especially when the Sony brand is attached to the $500 / ~600EU one).  And if price is the only thing that mattered to the Europeans, they would have picked up Wii U in droves this past Christmas.  Plus at the European equivalent of $200 or less, the PS3 will continue to be doing quite well in Europe until PS4 releases / gets its first price cut and cutting into 720 sales that would also mitigate the earlier start for 720.

Also seeing as how Wii U is a late 7th gen console or a 7.5 gen console whereas the PS4 would be a true 8th gen console you would see most of Japan's true Next Gen development geared towards PS4.  Really, overall, even with a two year head start you wouldn't see that much of a difference in Japan between Wii U and PS4 something like that between DS and PSP or the much smaller Wii versus PS3 gap ~4 million in favor of Wii with PS3 gaining every week demonstrating that there are many Japanese gamers that enjoy comparably awesome graphics especially if a lot of Japanese titles were already in development and being geared as PS4 or 8th Gen Console exclusives for the PS4's launch window (possible eg. Metal Gear Solid 5).

Yes, it's been the best selling console for like a year or two - doesn't mean it'll catch up to Wii. And question is how much more will it sell than the 360? But none of that matters as Sony more or less haven't earned any money from the PS3. They lost a shit load of money in the beginning, and it's not until recently they've hit their pre-PS3 levels of money. That is not a sustainable business model.

The difference between x3ox and PS4 is that MS has a lot of money. They can afford to produce a console at $500 and sell it for $400 - Sony can't. This make MS extremely competitive and can under cut PS4's price point every step of the way. And one of the reasons the Europeans DIDN'T buy a Wii U is BECAUSE of it's high price tag. €350 is a lot in EU right now, so do you really expect Sony to be successful with a €500 system?! It's gonna bomb HARD if it releases with that price. Sony will be forced to cut the price and lose money on it, money they don't have.

It doesn't matter how you count the generations; we number them because it makes it easier for the industry (and the fans) to talk about them. No matter how you wanna see the generations, it's a fact we compare the Wii with PS360 - because they're competing against each other for out money. That's what matters. It doesn't matter whether or not you think of Wii U as a gen 7 or gen 8 machine; it will compete with PS720 for the market's money. THAT'S what matter.

The Wii is dead and isn't getting any more games; THAT'S why PS3 is gaining on it. Nintendo dropped that piece of machine as if it was poison, and it shows. A much more relevant comparison would be 3DS vs Vita. Tell me, how is that race going? Last I saw the numbers 3DS had sold over 10m in Japan while Vita is stuck somewhere around 500k. Seriously, that's a HUGE difference. Both consoles are being supported and are new entries to the market. Vita is much more powerful than 3DS, so how come 3DS is consistently outselling Vita if Japanese wants better graphics and power? Please explain that to me. 3DS is an inferior piece of technology, and yet it's selling like crazy. It's really and ass raping of the Vita on a scale I've never seen before.

Let's compare 3DS vs Vita with Wii U vs PS4:

Vita/PS4 has/will have superior technology

3DS/Wii U launched earlier

3DS/Wii U is cheaper

What does that tell you? PS4 will be a huge failure if Sony follows your advice.


well said!



Nintendo Network ID = itsJabby

itsJabby said:
DanneSandin said:
EdHieron said:
DanneSandin said:
 

You're really predicting their doom imo...

First off; if Sony launches in late 2014, it wouldn't be a ONE years head start; it would be TWO years head start - since Wii U lanuched late in 2012. Secondly, it wasn't until AFTER the price drop the PS3 really picked up steam, so launching one year after x3ox with a higher price tag wouldn't benefit PS4, and soon they'd have to cut the price (like they did with PS3) and they'd be losing money (like with the PS3). Not a good strategy.

And with this strategy they would lose in Japan AND EU. Japanese aren't "graphic whores", meaning they would settle for something less powerful than a beastly PS4; enter Wii U. With a two years head start AND much cheaper price point they're set to dominate in Japan leaving the PS4 in the dust. And you gotta remember that EU is in a bad financial situation, which means that should x3ox launch one year a head with a cheaper price point Sony surely would lose that market as well leaving them with nothing. Launching at $500 would more or less guarantee a €500 price tag in EU, which translate to $650 - and that's something Europeans aren't ready to pay right now...

With your strategy Sony would ONLY attract old PS-fans, and not gaining anything else. This would be their last console.


Yeah, there were a lot of people predicting Sony's demise when it was announced that the PS3 would cost $600 at E3 2006, yet being the best selling console in the world week after week 6 years later would beg to differ.

Seeing as how 720's not going to be that cheap when it launches there wouldn't be that much difference in sales generated between a $400 and $500 (~500EU versus ~600EU) price tag in Europe initially (especially when the Sony brand is attached to the $500 / ~600EU one).  And if price is the only thing that mattered to the Europeans, they would have picked up Wii U in droves this past Christmas.  Plus at the European equivalent of $200 or less, the PS3 will continue to be doing quite well in Europe until PS4 releases / gets its first price cut and cutting into 720 sales that would also mitigate the earlier start for 720.

Also seeing as how Wii U is a late 7th gen console or a 7.5 gen console whereas the PS4 would be a true 8th gen console you would see most of Japan's true Next Gen development geared towards PS4.  Really, overall, even with a two year head start you wouldn't see that much of a difference in Japan between Wii U and PS4 something like that between DS and PSP or the much smaller Wii versus PS3 gap ~4 million in favor of Wii with PS3 gaining every week demonstrating that there are many Japanese gamers that enjoy comparably awesome graphics especially if a lot of Japanese titles were already in development and being geared as PS4 or 8th Gen Console exclusives for the PS4's launch window (possible eg. Metal Gear Solid 5).

Yes, it's been the best selling console for like a year or two - doesn't mean it'll catch up to Wii. And question is how much more will it sell than the 360? But none of that matters as Sony more or less haven't earned any money from the PS3. They lost a shit load of money in the beginning, and it's not until recently they've hit their pre-PS3 levels of money. That is not a sustainable business model.

The difference between x3ox and PS4 is that MS has a lot of money. They can afford to produce a console at $500 and sell it for $400 - Sony can't. This make MS extremely competitive and can under cut PS4's price point every step of the way. And one of the reasons the Europeans DIDN'T buy a Wii U is BECAUSE of it's high price tag. €350 is a lot in EU right now, so do you really expect Sony to be successful with a €500 system?! It's gonna bomb HARD if it releases with that price. Sony will be forced to cut the price and lose money on it, money they don't have.

It doesn't matter how you count the generations; we number them because it makes it easier for the industry (and the fans) to talk about them. No matter how you wanna see the generations, it's a fact we compare the Wii with PS360 - because they're competing against each other for out money. That's what matters. It doesn't matter whether or not you think of Wii U as a gen 7 or gen 8 machine; it will compete with PS720 for the market's money. THAT'S what matter.

The Wii is dead and isn't getting any more games; THAT'S why PS3 is gaining on it. Nintendo dropped that piece of machine as if it was poison, and it shows. A much more relevant comparison would be 3DS vs Vita. Tell me, how is that race going? Last I saw the numbers 3DS had sold over 10m in Japan while Vita is stuck somewhere around 500k. Seriously, that's a HUGE difference. Both consoles are being supported and are new entries to the market. Vita is much more powerful than 3DS, so how come 3DS is consistently outselling Vita if Japanese wants better graphics and power? Please explain that to me. 3DS is an inferior piece of technology, and yet it's selling like crazy. It's really and ass raping of the Vita on a scale I've never seen before.

Let's compare 3DS vs Vita with Wii U vs PS4:

Vita/PS4 has/will have superior technology

3DS/Wii U launched earlier

3DS/Wii U is cheaper

What does that tell you? PS4 will be a huge failure if Sony follows your advice.


well said!

Unfortunately it falls on deaf ears ^^



I'm on Twitter @DanneSandin!

Furthermore, I think VGChartz should add a "Like"-button.

Why does a console launching in late 2013 have to be "gimped" anyways for crying out loud? Blu-Ray drives today are cheaper than CD drive was for the Playstation in 94, DVD was for the PS2, and certainly Blu-Ray for the PS3.

A $130 (retail) Radeon 7770 GPU pumps out 1.28 TFLOPs, a decent CPU is even cheaper.

As long as Sony doesn't put ridiculous power consumption and casing size restraints on the PS4, there should be no problem delivering a system that's a huge step above the PS3, there's still a lot of time left for tech prices to drop to boot.