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Forums - Sony - Sony's chances of going bankrupt in the next two years

Dodece said:
HappySqurriel said:
The real problem Sony faces is that their net liabilities are at $140 Billion, their net icome is at -$5 Billion, and their debt to equity ratio is at 83% ...

At the current rate, in the not too distant future (2 to 3 years) Sony will have a book value of $0. There best option is to file for chapter 11, convince debt holders to take a haircut (probably resulting in liabilities being reduced by 50% to 75%) by diluting shareholder equity, and to restructure the company to return to profitability.

That would take a incredible amount of convincing. Creditors aren't obliged to forgive their debts, and they cannot be forced to forgive them. Further more as the situation stands now there isn't even a reason as to why they should do such a thing, because they can indeed be paid in full with the interest that they were in fact promised. Sony is just a liquidation away from making good, and the company doesn't even have to liquidate all of its assets.  Most of their assets yes, but that still doesn't mean that there wouldn't be a viable business on the other side.

The problem is that no entity can claim bankruptcy until they are bankrupt. As in imminent danger of defaulting on debts. Given Sony's cash reserves they are in a postition to be able to make their payments for the next few years, and if they do something really smart like abandon their television manufacturing business. Which depletes those reserves at a staggering rate. They could easily last twice as long as that. Even losing a billion plus dollars a year. Anyway any attempt by Sony to claim bankruptcy given their cash reserves would actually kickstart a liquidation.The creditors would recall their loans, and petition the courts to see that they got full restitution.

You see the creditors would see it as a tacit admission on the part of Sony that they have been cooking their books. Not just recently, but for a very long time, and they will no longer have any faith in the accounting. At that point there wouldn't be any saving the company. Investors would start to dump their stocks. Management would be under criminal investigation. Lending institutions in other locations would petition their local governments to seize Sony's local assets. It would just turn into a collosal cluster fuck, and in the midst of that the company would cease operations. Anytime a company drops a bombshell likes this that is totally counter indicated. Everyone knows that it is a sign of the end.

The point I am driving home is that it isn't even a option. If the management wants to keep themselves employeed, and out of prison they would be out of their fucking minds to try something like what you suggest. Firstly the court would hire a outside administrator to oversee the company, and to audit the companies books. Secondly the court would issue warrants for the arrests for key members of management. Be it cooking the books, or stock manipulation. Someone is very guilty of a felony. That isn't to say that they won't be charged, and convicted in absentia, because if I were to pull such a deranged stunt. I would prefer to be somewhere that extradition laws didn't reach.

Anyway your plan doesn't work. Sony is in bad shape, but it is more like a temporary or chronic condition. Then a sudden illness that requires immediate critical care for the patient to have any chance of survival. It is more like a case of Bronchitus. Rather then a case of meningitus. You might treat the latter with cold water immersion if the patient had a terribly high fever, because that fever could kill them.  While it isn't all that good for the Meningitus suffer. It is better then the alternative. The only thing doing that to a Bronchitus suffer will accomplish is to exacerbate their current condition, and cause it to progress to full blown pnemonia which can kill them. Your cure is worse then the disease. Especially when the disease could remedy itself over the coarse of time.

My point is that bankruptcies aren't good medicine. They are like the last resort when everything else has failed. Imagine going into a operating theater with a surgeon that works with a chainsaw, and has a ten percent success rate. Most companies that file for reconstruction die on the table, and most who actually survive the trauma succumb in a few more years anyway. Only a special few actually go on to have a future. Why wouldn't any rational entity go through all of the other treatments that have better success rates first.

I don't know enough about the inner workings of Sony to know what is a truly viable option, I've just seen the approach I'm talking about be used many times with companies that are close to closing their doors ...

Essentially, through liquidation debt holders can get pennies on the dollar for what their debt is worth or they can trade debt for equity and potentially recover all of their investment (or more) if the company recovers. I've seen this done outside of bankruptcy but that is rare because it is difficult to convince creditors to take a haircut, or investors to accept the massive loss in equity, unless the company is at risk of shutting down.



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@HappySqurriel

What you are basically suggesting is that Sony can commit credit fraud. No entity has the right to pocket the principal, and to refuse payment when the loan comes due. Sony can't declare bankruptcy anyway, because they are solvent. They can pay their debts in full with interest. They have to provide evidence for their credit worthiness. Before anyone loans them any money to begin with. So Sony definitely isn't under water.



Dodece said:
@HappySqurriel

What you are basically suggesting is that Sony can commit credit fraud. No entity has the right to pocket the principal, and to refuse payment when the loan comes due. Sony can't declare bankruptcy anyway, because they are solvent. They can pay their debts in full with interest. They have to provide evidence for their credit worthiness. Before anyone loans them any money to begin with. So Sony definitely isn't under water.

I think you misunderstand what I am saying ...

It is quite simply a loan modification where the creditors agree to reduce the principle in exchange for equity in the company. There is nothing illegal about it but it is usually only done in the context of bankruptcy though.



There is something strange about the analysis tool.
It shows major drug companies -- Pfizer, GSK, AstraZenaca, etc., as having a much high bankruptcy probability -- in the 35 to 40 percent range.

Mike from Morgantown



      


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@HappySqurriel

With damned good reason might I add. When companies generate new stock. It stands to reason that it devalues their current stock. All the company is doing by offering up stock in lieu of payment is forcing the investors to take the financial hit instead of the company itself. That undermines investor faith in the company, and drives down the price of the stock. Which forces the company to offer up more stock in compensation. Which drives the stock down further. This kind of a cycle can escalate fast, and get out of control even faster.

Once the investors panic about the swaps. It won't take them long to use the legal and institutional mechanisms to actually force the company into a bankruptcy. Your scheme wouldn't promote longevity it speeds the company into a bankruptcy that can well be avoided. Did you see what happened with Sony offered its stock option bonds a few months back. Their stock took a big hit, and those were just options. If Sony did that again in less then a year. You can bet your ass there would be a run on the stock, and legal requests for injunctions against the companies management would be filed shortly there after.

The reason schemes like this work in bankruptcy is pretty simple. Most of the time the existing stock has become worthless. So the stockholders have already lost. In most cases they either don't get anything, or they get pennies. These stock equities you are talking about are just a way for creditors to divvy up the company they now own. So they can sell off their stakes later, or as a way to manage the liquidation. I mean the new companies business could just be selling itself off piece by piece.




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I reckon they will be fine.



Somini said:
I wonder why the Microsoft fans feel the need to post so much Sony news!

Same reason why Sony fans like to troll pro MS news?



Xbox: Best hardware, Game Pass best value, best BC, more 1st party genres and multiplayer titles. 

 

I never thought they go bankrupt. Just a slow decline year after year.



Xbox: Best hardware, Game Pass best value, best BC, more 1st party genres and multiplayer titles. 

 

I am so entirely skeptical of this "statistic".
First of all, a Z-score is simply how many standard deviations a point of data is from the mean of a normal distribution (a bell curve). For this to work, there has to be a quantifiable "bankruptness" that could be placed on the curve, however, the article gives nothing similar to that, and second of all, it doesn't give the calculations or context of the Z-score. These are big no nos in the world of statistics



Is it ok to be aware of this might happening somewhere in the next five years, but not actually dwell on it?  I rather not think about this now.