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Forums - Politics Discussion - Gun control debate issues that bother me. Will Libertarians and Republicans please address these?

If we take guns away from citizens...it gives way more power to both police/government as well as criminals/cartels.

I just want my safety in my hands, not in the hands of the police. There is only so much the police can do, there are more criminals than cops out there.

Also guns prevent tyranny. Like imagine a Hitler type character takes power and wants to genocide every white person in America...well good fucking luck with that buddy, it would take an entire army to take down the good old boys down south. Imagine if the Jews in Europe were even half as well armed as Americans are today...they would have fended off genocide and been able to revolt.

Anyone who says we don't need guns to protect us from tyranny is a FUCKING IDIOT. Every genocide that has ever happened has been in a place where there is gun control against citizens. If it can happen in a first world place like Germany then why not America (if guns were taken away)?



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Mummelmann said:
Kasz216 said:
non-gravity said:
 

 

 


That is a very poor analogy coming from an otherwise intelligent poster.

An assault rifle is purpose built to kill, its a weapon and not a tool. A hammer is not purpose built to end someone's life. Its almost like saying that an Apache Longbow is a tool for air-drying your hair or air-conditioning because it could be used for it when this is clearly not the case and it's original intent.

On a side note; the whole Piers Morgan thing is pretty funny from where I'm sitting, basically people want to screw the 1st amendment because he spoke against the 2nd amendment...



i'M PRETTY SURE CLUBS AND HAMMERS have been round longer for the purpose of killing than using to put nails in a wall. As for the dumbass morgan thats not whats happening at all.



Marks said:
If we take guns away from citizens...it gives way more power to both police/government as well as criminals/cartels.

I just want my safety in my hands, not in the hands of the police. There is only so much the police can do, there are more criminals than cops out there.

Also guns prevent tyranny. Like imagine a Hitler type character takes power and wants to genocide every white person in America...well good fucking luck with that buddy, it would take an entire army to take down the good old boys down south. Imagine if the Jews in Europe were even half as well armed as Americans are today...they would have fended off genocide and been able to revolt.

Anyone who says we don't need guns to protect us from tyranny is a FUCKING IDIOT. Every genocide that has ever happened has been in a place where there is gun control against citizens. If it can happen in a first world place like Germany then why not America (if guns were taken away)?

yea, if native americans had had guns they might not have suffered genocide by european settlers



Ssenkahdavic said:
HappySqurriel said:
Ssenkahdavic said:

It is 100% the blame game here. Just like everything else in America today.

As a country can we NOT FUCKING TAKE responsibility for anything anymore?

Lets blame the guns for the school deaths, Lets blame Violent Video Games/Movies/TV Shows. Not the parent who didnt lock up the damn guns when she "probably" knew her kid was violent? Let us not blame the system for not allowing her easier access to help for her son? LET US NOT BLAME THE KID WHO DID IT?

Its the same with Obesity here (only reason I bring it up is it was stated earlier). Lets blame the food, lets call it a "disease". Lets not take any personal responsibility for eating to much, being lazy and refusing to "fix ourselves".

This is not a Republican/Libertarian thing, as there are plenty of Democrats who agree who are against Gun Control.

When you look at how gun violence is broken down by race it becomes clear that the problem is very specific to black and hispanic people in the United States, and I think I can demonstrate what it is:

63% of youth suicides are from fatherless homes (Source: U.S. D.H.H.S., Bureau of the Census)
90% of all homeless and runaway children are from fatherless homes
85% of all children that exhibit behavioral disorders come from fatherless homes (Source: Center for Disease Control)
80% of rapists motivated with displaced anger come from fatherless homes (Source: Criminal Justice & Behavior, Vol 14, p. 403-26, 1978.)
71% of all high school dropouts come from fatherless homes (Source: National Principals Association Report on the State of High Schools.)
75% of all adolescent patients in chemical abuse centers come from fatherless homes (Source: Rainbows for all God`s Children.)
70% of juveniles in state-operated institutions come from fatherless homes (Source: U.S. Dept. of Justice, Special Report, Sept 1988)
85% of all youths sitting in prisons grew up in a fatherless home (Source: Fulton Co. Georgia jail populations, Texas Dept. of Corrections 1992)

I do not think it is a Racial Problem (and Im not saying you do either).  But look at all those statistics

Its just easier to Regulate Something (Guns, Violent Video Games/Entertrainment) than to change Society.

 

And as a Man, I have to say those Fatherless Statistcs are extremely depressing.  I hope to hell if I ever become a parent, I stay a parent.

He's not saying it's a racial problem so much as... it's largely a problem that mainly effects minorties... and he's mostly right.

Not mass shootings though.   Mass shootings are usually middle class people from good homes that make good money.



dsgrue3 said:
NobleTeam360 said:
dsgrue3 said:
sperrico87 said:
dsgrue3 said:
ArnoldRimmer said:
sperrico87 said:
DieAppleDie said:
Guns should be permanned and stricktly controlled
guns are for military and police

Correction:  The right to keep and bear arms is to protect us from the military and the police.  

The founding fathers would probably be rolling on the floor laughing at the very prospect of citizens "protecting" themselves with guns against a military equipped with nuclear bombs, warships, guided missiles, tanks, warplanes...

The US military isn't going to murder the very citizens it has sworn to protect.

Ha! Oh really?  I take it you've never heard of the National Defense Authorization Act.  Or any countless number of other terrifying things the Government has allowed itself to do by either secret or public legislation and executive orders.

NDAA grants no new powers to the president in regard to US citizens. It pertains to terrorists. Read the bill, moron. 

From what I read the bill pretains to U.S. citizens as well as terrorists. 

*Sigh

 

SEC. 1021. AFFIRMATION OF AUTHORITY OF THE ARMED FORCES OF THE UNITED STATES TO DETAIN COVERED PERSONS PURSUANT TO THE AUTHORIZATION FOR USE OF MILITARYFORCE.

(e) AUTHORITIES.—Nothing in this section shall be construed to affect existing law or authorities relating to the detention of United States citizens, lawful resident aliens of the United States, or any other persons who are captured or arrested in the United States.

 

http://www.infowars.com/myth-busted-yes-the-ndaa-does-apply-to-americans-and-heres-the-text-that-says-so/

"The key to subsection 1021(e) is its claim that sec. 1021 does not “affect existing law or authorities” relating to the detention of persons arrested on U.S. soil. If the President’s expansive view of his own power were in statute, that statement would be true. Instead, the section codifies the President’s view as if it had always existed, authorizing detention of “persons” regardless of citizenship or where they are arrested. It then disingenuously says the bill doesn’t change that view."


It finalizes things that already allowed it, albeit through more temporary measures.



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Lafiel said:
Marks said:
If we take guns away from citizens...it gives way more power to both police/government as well as criminals/cartels.

I just want my safety in my hands, not in the hands of the police. There is only so much the police can do, there are more criminals than cops out there.

Also guns prevent tyranny. Like imagine a Hitler type character takes power and wants to genocide every white person in America...well good fucking luck with that buddy, it would take an entire army to take down the good old boys down south. Imagine if the Jews in Europe were even half as well armed as Americans are today...they would have fended off genocide and been able to revolt.

Anyone who says we don't need guns to protect us from tyranny is a FUCKING IDIOT. Every genocide that has ever happened has been in a place where there is gun control against citizens. If it can happen in a first world place like Germany then why not America (if guns were taken away)?

yea, if native americans had had guns they might not have suffered genocide by european settlers

If they had more guns it certaintly would of helped stopping that.  However actually Native American's were on a HUGE decline before we ever even got there.

Little known fact but Native American populations used to be so large that some climate scientists think that it was their development of North America that caused the medievil warming period, as they deforested too much of North America causes an increase in global temperatures.

The vikings and I think a couple other civilizations tried to settle America way before then and the Native Americans kicked there ass.

By the time the English and French got there they had been horribly wiped out by some great plague or another, and settlers were shocked at how there just seemed to be huge swarths of land that were just made for settlement. (but empty.)

 

The Native American populations had died off due to great diseases as well as droughts... caused by their own rapid deforestation of North America.



Kasz216 said:
Ssenkahdavic said:
HappySqurriel said:
Ssenkahdavic said:

It is 100% the blame game here. Just like everything else in America today.

As a country can we NOT FUCKING TAKE responsibility for anything anymore?

Lets blame the guns for the school deaths, Lets blame Violent Video Games/Movies/TV Shows. Not the parent who didnt lock up the damn guns when she "probably" knew her kid was violent? Let us not blame the system for not allowing her easier access to help for her son? LET US NOT BLAME THE KID WHO DID IT?

Its the same with Obesity here (only reason I bring it up is it was stated earlier). Lets blame the food, lets call it a "disease". Lets not take any personal responsibility for eating to much, being lazy and refusing to "fix ourselves".

This is not a Republican/Libertarian thing, as there are plenty of Democrats who agree who are against Gun Control.

When you look at how gun violence is broken down by race it becomes clear that the problem is very specific to black and hispanic people in the United States, and I think I can demonstrate what it is:

63% of youth suicides are from fatherless homes (Source: U.S. D.H.H.S., Bureau of the Census)
90% of all homeless and runaway children are from fatherless homes
85% of all children that exhibit behavioral disorders come from fatherless homes (Source: Center for Disease Control)
80% of rapists motivated with displaced anger come from fatherless homes (Source: Criminal Justice & Behavior, Vol 14, p. 403-26, 1978.)
71% of all high school dropouts come from fatherless homes (Source: National Principals Association Report on the State of High Schools.)
75% of all adolescent patients in chemical abuse centers come from fatherless homes (Source: Rainbows for all God`s Children.)
70% of juveniles in state-operated institutions come from fatherless homes (Source: U.S. Dept. of Justice, Special Report, Sept 1988)
85% of all youths sitting in prisons grew up in a fatherless home (Source: Fulton Co. Georgia jail populations, Texas Dept. of Corrections 1992)

I do not think it is a Racial Problem (and Im not saying you do either).  But look at all those statistics

Its just easier to Regulate Something (Guns, Violent Video Games/Entertrainment) than to change Society.

 

And as a Man, I have to say those Fatherless Statistcs are extremely depressing.  I hope to hell if I ever become a parent, I stay a parent.

He's not saying it's a racial problem so much as... it's largely a problem that mainly effects minorties... and he's mostly right.

Not mass shootings though.   Mass shootings are usually middle class people from good homes that make good money.

Yep.  The issue here is many more people die from smaller scaled shootings than Mass Shootings, but Mass Shootings get the "Glory" treatment by the media. 

And ya, I agree with the bolded.  Just felt the need to point that out.  It goes back to the new American Pasttime, deflecting the blame.  At first glance a good bit of people would "Blame Race" from the graphs.  Others would blame guns.  Then comes the actual % stats and its incredible....

All goes back to its easier to Regulate Rules on Items than to Fix Social Issues.  We have seen what happens when governments try to Force Morality (or their form of morality) on the population. 



Ssenkahdavic said:
Kasz216 said:
Ssenkahdavic said:
HappySqurriel said:
Ssenkahdavic said:

He's not saying it's a racial problem so much as... it's largely a problem that mainly effects minorties... and he's mostly right.

Not mass shootings though.   Mass shootings are usually middle class people from good homes that make good money.

Yep.  The issue here is many more people die from smaller scaled shootings than Mass Shootings, but Mass Shootings get the "Glory" treatment by the media. 

And ya, I agree with the bolded.  Just felt the need to point that out.  It goes back to the new American Pasttime, deflecting the blame.  At first glance a good bit of people would "Blame Race" from the graphs.  Others would blame guns.  Then comes the actual % stats and its incredible....

All goes back to its easier to Regulate Rules on Items than to Fix Social Issues.  We have seen what happens when governments try to Force Morality (or their form of morality) on the population. 

I blame it on the metods.  Democrats still try and solve every problem with WW2 FDR era knowledge of just directly throwing money at whatever the problem is.

 

When we actually have advanced in social and behvaiorial sciences since then... and none of that ever gets used.

 



Kasz216 said:
Lafiel said:
Marks said:
If we take guns away from citizens...it gives way more power to both police/government as well as criminals/cartels.

I just want my safety in my hands, not in the hands of the police. There is only so much the police can do, there are more criminals than cops out there.

Also guns prevent tyranny. Like imagine a Hitler type character takes power and wants to genocide every white person in America...well good fucking luck with that buddy, it would take an entire army to take down the good old boys down south. Imagine if the Jews in Europe were even half as well armed as Americans are today...they would have fended off genocide and been able to revolt.

Anyone who says we don't need guns to protect us from tyranny is a FUCKING IDIOT. Every genocide that has ever happened has been in a place where there is gun control against citizens. If it can happen in a first world place like Germany then why not America (if guns were taken away)?

yea, if native americans had had guns they might not have suffered genocide by european settlers

If they had more guns it certaintly would of helped stopping that.  However actually Native American's were on a HUGE decline before we ever even got there.

Little known fact but Native American populations used to be so large that some climate scientists think that it was their development of North America that caused the medievil warming period, as they deforested too much of North America causes an increase in global temperatures.

The vikings and I think a couple other civilizations tried to settle America way before then and the Native Americans kicked there ass.

By the time the English and French got there they had been horribly wiped out by some great plague or another, and settlers were shocked at how there just seemed to be huge swarths of land that were just made for settlement. (but empty.)

 

The Native American populations had died off due to great diseases as well as droughts... caused by their own rapid deforestation of North America.

Some interesting stuff there... a little off topic but you have any references I could look at Kaz?



Marks said:

Also guns prevent tyranny. Like imagine a Hitler type character takes power and wants to genocide every white person in America...well good fucking luck with that buddy, it would take an entire army to take down the good old boys down south. Imagine if the Jews in Europe were even half as well armed as Americans are today...they would have fended off genocide and been able to revolt.

Anyone who says we don't need guns to protect us from tyranny is a FUCKING IDIOT. Every genocide that has ever happened has been in a place where there is gun control against citizens. If it can happen in a first world place like Germany then why not America (if guns were taken away)?

I agree Weimar Germany and the current USA are pretty much the same thing.