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Forums - Politics - Gun control debate issues that bother me. Will Libertarians and Republicans please address these?

HappySqurriel on 27 December 2012
Ssenkahdavic said:

It is 100% the blame game here. Just like everything else in America today.

As a country can we NOT FUCKING TAKE responsibility for anything anymore?

Lets blame the guns for the school deaths, Lets blame Violent Video Games/Movies/TV Shows. Not the parent who didnt lock up the damn guns when she "probably" knew her kid was violent? Let us not blame the system for not allowing her easier access to help for her son? LET US NOT BLAME THE KID WHO DID IT?

Its the same with Obesity here (only reason I bring it up is it was stated earlier). Lets blame the food, lets call it a "disease". Lets not take any personal responsibility for eating to much, being lazy and refusing to "fix ourselves".

This is not a Republican/Libertarian thing, as there are plenty of Democrats who agree who are against Gun Control.

When you look at how gun violence is broken down by race it becomes clear that the problem is very specific to black and hispanic people in the United States, and I think I can demonstrate what it is:

63% of youth suicides are from fatherless homes (Source: U.S. D.H.H.S., Bureau of the Census)
90% of all homeless and runaway children are from fatherless homes
85% of all children that exhibit behavioral disorders come from fatherless homes (Source: Center for Disease Control)
80% of rapists motivated with displaced anger come from fatherless homes (Source: Criminal Justice & Behavior, Vol 14, p. 403-26, 1978.)
71% of all high school dropouts come from fatherless homes (Source: National Principals Association Report on the State of High Schools.)
75% of all adolescent patients in chemical abuse centers come from fatherless homes (Source: Rainbows for all God`s Children.)
70% of juveniles in state-operated institutions come from fatherless homes (Source: U.S. Dept. of Justice, Special Report, Sept 1988)
85% of all youths sitting in prisons grew up in a fatherless home (Source: Fulton Co. Georgia jail populations, Texas Dept. of Corrections 1992)



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zumnupy10 on 27 December 2012

I used to be a fanatic supporter of the Libertarian ideals. Thought all problems existed because of government regulation.

As much as I think government is too big/powerful and is hurting economy. I'm also scared about a super liberal society.



badgenome on 27 December 2012
ArnoldRimmer said:

The founding fathers would probably be rolling on the floor laughing at the very prospect of citizens "protecting" themselves with guns against a military equipped with nuclear bombs, warships, guided missiles, tanks, warplanes...

The Taliban says, "What's up?" 11 years and counting.



sperrico87 on 27 December 2012
ArnoldRimmer said:
sperrico87 said:
DieAppleDie said:
Guns should be permanned and stricktly controlled
guns are for military and police

Correction:  The right to keep and bear arms is to protect us from the military and the police.  

The founding fathers would probably be rolling on the floor laughing at the very prospect of citizens "protecting" themselves with guns against a military equipped with nuclear bombs, warships, guided missiles, tanks, warplanes...

Better than the alternative... left utterly defenseless by anti-Second Amendment liberals



 

NobleTeam360 on 27 December 2012
El_Machete said:
Max King of the Wild said:
El_Machete said:
Max King of the Wild said:
El_Machete said:
Max King of the Wild said:
 

Are you okay with a teacher or principal using the saws in wood shop? Or a fire extinguisher in home ecs class? How about them using scissors and that giant knife thing that cuts a bunch of paper at once in a straight line.

if you can point to me the massacres that were done with saws, scissors, giant knifes, and paper cutter then ill worry, but until then gun are best tool for the job, thus they should be taken away.

How about fertilizer and a rent a truck? no? Fine then I can easily answer you with 9-11. That was done due to box cutters and killed thousands

Anyway, you didn't answer my question. Which was are you okay with teachers using those instruments?

 

If a cop loses his mind one day and starts killing a bunch of people, no one would blame the gun because he was supposed to have one. It was simply a misfortune and should be attributed to other things. If a teacher decides to use a scissor to kill children, no one would blame the scissor, or box cutter. I thought i did answer your question, but allow me to do it more clearly. I am ok with teachers using those tools because those tools are not the problem in these scenarios. Stop being so cynical and making these complete irrelevant examples.

 


Stop being so assumptious and thinking the examples  are completely irrelevant. So you are okay with teachers using tools they are trained in. You are also okay with officers using tools they are trained in. Both are people, but you aren't okay with one group to be trained with a certain tool that the other group is trained in... So officers shouldn't be trained to use saws


we are derailing from the issue, but ill bite one more time. Everything can be used to kill, a kitching knife to a bag of cottons, and of course the one that has always been with us... our own hands. When you think about this, examples of saws and scissors become irrelevant. Guns are a different case because they were made with the sole purpose of killing. They are extremely effient and have no other purpose. I really don't undertand why would anyone want to be trained to use a gun, if not to be an officer or soldier.  


If you can't see why people would need a gun then trying to persuade you into something you don't understand is a lost cause. 



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dsgrue3 on 27 December 2012
ArnoldRimmer said:
sperrico87 said:
DieAppleDie said:
Guns should be permanned and stricktly controlled
guns are for military and police

Correction:  The right to keep and bear arms is to protect us from the military and the police.  

The founding fathers would probably be rolling on the floor laughing at the very prospect of citizens "protecting" themselves with guns against a military equipped with nuclear bombs, warships, guided missiles, tanks, warplanes...

The US military isn't going to murder the very citizens it has sworn to protect.



sperrico87 on 27 December 2012
dsgrue3 said:
ArnoldRimmer said:
sperrico87 said:
DieAppleDie said:
Guns should be permanned and stricktly controlled
guns are for military and police

Correction:  The right to keep and bear arms is to protect us from the military and the police.  

The founding fathers would probably be rolling on the floor laughing at the very prospect of citizens "protecting" themselves with guns against a military equipped with nuclear bombs, warships, guided missiles, tanks, warplanes...

The US military isn't going to murder the very citizens it has sworn to protect.

Ha! Oh really?  I take it you've never heard of the National Defense Authorization Act.  Or any countless number of other terrifying things the Government has allowed itself to do by either secret or public legislation and executive orders.



 

NobleTeam360 on 27 December 2012
HappySqurriel said:
Ssenkahdavic said:

It is 100% the blame game here. Just like everything else in America today.

As a country can we NOT FUCKING TAKE responsibility for anything anymore?

Lets blame the guns for the school deaths, Lets blame Violent Video Games/Movies/TV Shows. Not the parent who didnt lock up the damn guns when she "probably" knew her kid was violent? Let us not blame the system for not allowing her easier access to help for her son? LET US NOT BLAME THE KID WHO DID IT?

Its the same with Obesity here (only reason I bring it up is it was stated earlier). Lets blame the food, lets call it a "disease". Lets not take any personal responsibility for eating to much, being lazy and refusing to "fix ourselves".

This is not a Republican/Libertarian thing, as there are plenty of Democrats who agree who are against Gun Control.

When you look at how gun violence is broken down by race it becomes clear that the problem is very specific to black and hispanic people in the United States, and I think I can demonstrate what it is:

63% of youth suicides are from fatherless homes (Source: U.S. D.H.H.S., Bureau of the Census)
90% of all homeless and runaway children are from fatherless homes
85% of all children that exhibit behavioral disorders come from fatherless homes (Source: Center for Disease Control)
80% of rapists motivated with displaced anger come from fatherless homes (Source: Criminal Justice & Behavior, Vol 14, p. 403-26, 1978.)
71% of all high school dropouts come from fatherless homes (Source: National Principals Association Report on the State of High Schools.)
75% of all adolescent patients in chemical abuse centers come from fatherless homes (Source: Rainbows for all God`s Children.)
70% of juveniles in state-operated institutions come from fatherless homes (Source: U.S. Dept. of Justice, Special Report, Sept 1988)
85% of all youths sitting in prisons grew up in a fatherless home (Source: Fulton Co. Georgia jail populations, Texas Dept. of Corrections 1992)

A more interesting fact is that these mass shootings have all been comitted by White people. 



NobleTeam360 on 27 December 2012
sperrico87 said:
dsgrue3 said:
ArnoldRimmer said:
sperrico87 said:
DieAppleDie said:
Guns should be permanned and stricktly controlled
guns are for military and police

Correction:  The right to keep and bear arms is to protect us from the military and the police.  

The founding fathers would probably be rolling on the floor laughing at the very prospect of citizens "protecting" themselves with guns against a military equipped with nuclear bombs, warships, guided missiles, tanks, warplanes...

The US military isn't going to murder the very citizens it has sworn to protect.

Ha! Oh really?  I take it you've never heard of the National Defense Authorization Act.  Or any countless number of other terrifying things the Government has allowed itself to do by either secret or public legislation and executive orders.


Hopefully the military personel would have some sort of since of morality. I don't want mindless soilders who just listen to what they are told to do, if faced with having to attack their own people on a massive scale I think they would turn on the government (hopefully) than kill millions of Americans. 



Ssenkahdavic on 27 December 2012
HappySqurriel said:
Ssenkahdavic said:

It is 100% the blame game here. Just like everything else in America today.

As a country can we NOT FUCKING TAKE responsibility for anything anymore?

Lets blame the guns for the school deaths, Lets blame Violent Video Games/Movies/TV Shows. Not the parent who didnt lock up the damn guns when she "probably" knew her kid was violent? Let us not blame the system for not allowing her easier access to help for her son? LET US NOT BLAME THE KID WHO DID IT?

Its the same with Obesity here (only reason I bring it up is it was stated earlier). Lets blame the food, lets call it a "disease". Lets not take any personal responsibility for eating to much, being lazy and refusing to "fix ourselves".

This is not a Republican/Libertarian thing, as there are plenty of Democrats who agree who are against Gun Control.

When you look at how gun violence is broken down by race it becomes clear that the problem is very specific to black and hispanic people in the United States, and I think I can demonstrate what it is:

63% of youth suicides are from fatherless homes (Source: U.S. D.H.H.S., Bureau of the Census)
90% of all homeless and runaway children are from fatherless homes
85% of all children that exhibit behavioral disorders come from fatherless homes (Source: Center for Disease Control)
80% of rapists motivated with displaced anger come from fatherless homes (Source: Criminal Justice & Behavior, Vol 14, p. 403-26, 1978.)
71% of all high school dropouts come from fatherless homes (Source: National Principals Association Report on the State of High Schools.)
75% of all adolescent patients in chemical abuse centers come from fatherless homes (Source: Rainbows for all God`s Children.)
70% of juveniles in state-operated institutions come from fatherless homes (Source: U.S. Dept. of Justice, Special Report, Sept 1988)
85% of all youths sitting in prisons grew up in a fatherless home (Source: Fulton Co. Georgia jail populations, Texas Dept. of Corrections 1992)

I do not think it is a Racial Problem (and Im not saying you do either).  But look at all those statistics

Its just easier to Regulate Something (Guns, Violent Video Games/Entertrainment) than to change Society.

 

And as a Man, I have to say those Fatherless Statistcs are extremely depressing.  I hope to hell if I ever become a parent, I stay a parent.



 

  

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