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Forums - Politics Discussion - Gun control debate issues that bother me. Will Libertarians and Republicans please address these?

dahuman on 27 December 2012
yum123 said:
sperrico87 said:
yum123 said:
The op has one glaring option missing, the best option remove guns completely and get them out of americas culture. which other western cultures and showing americans the example. also get rid of this stupid misconception that its a god given right that all you americans have the right to a murder weapon.

Who are you to say we don't just because you don't think we should?  Do you live here?

You realize that the entire reason there is an America in the first place is because people fought to protect individual freedoms and liberty, which includes, among many other things, the right to keep and bear arms.

Guns are usually not a murder weapon, point of fact they are a violence deterrent.  

The Second Amendment exists because our Founding Fathers rightfully knew that the absolute last form of defense against tyranny are armed citizen militias.  Without citizens owning guns, there exists nothing to stop the government from quelling rebellions.  The American Revolution was a rebellion!

ignored everything i said. Look at other western countires that dont have guns in them. you dont see shit like mass shootings happening. apart from the very rare nut cases that are unhuman. and the world was a completely different place back then. theres simply no comparison. lastly the sole purpose of a gun is to inflict severe damage on the target. end of story its only because youve been bought up believing this crap that your defending them. you need to look from outside the box. 


There are plenty throughout history to current times, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_events_named_massacres

On that list is one in Norway that dressed up as a police officer and killed 69 people in 2011, I didn't read through every single one, but don't try to make an argument that it doesn't happen outside US in modern days.



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dsgrue3 on 27 December 2012
sperrico87 said:
dsgrue3 said:
ArnoldRimmer said:
sperrico87 said:
DieAppleDie said:
Guns should be permanned and stricktly controlled
guns are for military and police

Correction:  The right to keep and bear arms is to protect us from the military and the police.  

The founding fathers would probably be rolling on the floor laughing at the very prospect of citizens "protecting" themselves with guns against a military equipped with nuclear bombs, warships, guided missiles, tanks, warplanes...

The US military isn't going to murder the very citizens it has sworn to protect.

Ha! Oh really?  I take it you've never heard of the National Defense Authorization Act.  Or any countless number of other terrifying things the Government has allowed itself to do by either secret or public legislation and executive orders.

NDAA grants no new powers to the president in regard to US citizens. It pertains to terrorists. Read the bill, moron. 

Moderated,

-Mr Khan



dahuman on 27 December 2012
NobleTeam360 said:
sperrico87 said:
dsgrue3 said:
ArnoldRimmer said:
sperrico87 said:
DieAppleDie said:
Guns should be permanned and stricktly controlled
guns are for military and police

Correction:  The right to keep and bear arms is to protect us from the military and the police.  

The founding fathers would probably be rolling on the floor laughing at the very prospect of citizens "protecting" themselves with guns against a military equipped with nuclear bombs, warships, guided missiles, tanks, warplanes...

The US military isn't going to murder the very citizens it has sworn to protect.

Ha! Oh really?  I take it you've never heard of the National Defense Authorization Act.  Or any countless number of other terrifying things the Government has allowed itself to do by either secret or public legislation and executive orders.


Hopefully the military personel would have some sort of since of morality. I don't want mindless soilders who just listen to what they are told to do, if faced with having to attack their own people on a massive scale I think they would turn on the government (hopefully) than kill millions of Americans. 

It's their job or they get court martialed, a lot of times a bullet to the back of the head.



HappySqurriel on 27 December 2012
NobleTeam360 said:

A more interesting fact is that these mass shootings have all been comitted by White people. 

While I think mass shootings are more of a distraction than anything else it should be pointed out that Adam Lanza (connecticut shooter) and Anders Brevik were both raised in single parent households; and most mass murderers have very disfunctional families.



NobleTeam360 on 27 December 2012
dsgrue3 said:
sperrico87 said:
dsgrue3 said:
ArnoldRimmer said:
sperrico87 said:
DieAppleDie said:
Guns should be permanned and stricktly controlled
guns are for military and police

Correction:  The right to keep and bear arms is to protect us from the military and the police.  

The founding fathers would probably be rolling on the floor laughing at the very prospect of citizens "protecting" themselves with guns against a military equipped with nuclear bombs, warships, guided missiles, tanks, warplanes...

The US military isn't going to murder the very citizens it has sworn to protect.

Ha! Oh really?  I take it you've never heard of the National Defense Authorization Act.  Or any countless number of other terrifying things the Government has allowed itself to do by either secret or public legislation and executive orders.

NDAA grants no new powers to the president in regard to US citizens. It pertains to terrorists. Read the bill, moron. 

From what I read the bill pretains to U.S. citizens as well as terrorists. 



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dsgrue3 on 27 December 2012
NobleTeam360 said:
dsgrue3 said:
sperrico87 said:
dsgrue3 said:
ArnoldRimmer said:
sperrico87 said:
DieAppleDie said:
Guns should be permanned and stricktly controlled
guns are for military and police

Correction:  The right to keep and bear arms is to protect us from the military and the police.  

The founding fathers would probably be rolling on the floor laughing at the very prospect of citizens "protecting" themselves with guns against a military equipped with nuclear bombs, warships, guided missiles, tanks, warplanes...

The US military isn't going to murder the very citizens it has sworn to protect.

Ha! Oh really?  I take it you've never heard of the National Defense Authorization Act.  Or any countless number of other terrifying things the Government has allowed itself to do by either secret or public legislation and executive orders.

NDAA grants no new powers to the president in regard to US citizens. It pertains to terrorists. Read the bill, moron. 

From what I read the bill pretains to U.S. citizens as well as terrorists. 

*Sigh

SEC. 1021. AFFIRMATION OF AUTHORITY OF THE ARMED FORCES OF THE UNITED STATES TO DETAIN COVERED PERSONS PURSUANT TO THE AUTHORIZATION FOR USE OF MILITARYFORCE.

(e) AUTHORITIES.—Nothing in this section shall be construed to affect existing law or authorities relating to the detention of United States citizens, lawful resident aliens of the United States, or any other persons who are captured or arrested in the United States.



NobleTeam360 on 27 December 2012
dsgrue3 said:
NobleTeam360 said:
dsgrue3 said:
sperrico87 said:
dsgrue3 said:
ArnoldRimmer said:
sperrico87 said:
DieAppleDie said:
Guns should be permanned and stricktly controlled
guns are for military and police

Correction:  The right to keep and bear arms is to protect us from the military and the police.  

The founding fathers would probably be rolling on the floor laughing at the very prospect of citizens "protecting" themselves with guns against a military equipped with nuclear bombs, warships, guided missiles, tanks, warplanes...

The US military isn't going to murder the very citizens it has sworn to protect.

Ha! Oh really?  I take it you've never heard of the National Defense Authorization Act.  Or any countless number of other terrifying things the Government has allowed itself to do by either secret or public legislation and executive orders.

NDAA grants no new powers to the president in regard to US citizens. It pertains to terrorists. Read the bill, moron. 

From what I read the bill pretains to U.S. citizens as well as terrorists. 

*Sigh

 

SEC. 1021. AFFIRMATION OF AUTHORITY OF THE ARMED FORCES OF THE UNITED STATES TO DETAIN COVERED PERSONS PURSUANT TO THE AUTHORIZATION FOR USE OF MILITARYFORCE.

(e) AUTHORITIES.—Nothing in this section shall be construed to affect existing law or authorities relating to the detention of United States citizens, lawful resident aliens of the United States, or any other persons who are captured or arrested in the United States.

 


Huh haven't read it in a while so I guess they must have changed it. But thats great news. 



Mummelmann on 27 December 2012
Kasz216 said:
non-gravity said:
dahuman said:
Gun control is basically the same as DRM in that it only hurts the legitimate people and not the criminals/pirates.

legitimate people become criminals when taking a gun to do something criminal. If they didn't have the gun they wouldn't have become criminals. Thus gun control can never hurt criminals.

So... your arguement is that people don't decide to comit crimes, but there guns mind control them to comit crimes, and if guns weren't there, and they say... wanted to murder somebody... nobody would be murdered.

I mean, I know that isn't your arguement, but that's what it sounds like from how you phrased it.

Guns are a tool.  Period.

The actions one takes with a tool should never be ascribed too the tool.

No more then a hammer is reponsible when someone murders someone else with a hammer.


That is a very poor analogy coming from an otherwise intelligent poster.

An assault rifle is purpose built to kill, its a weapon and not a tool. A hammer is not purpose built to end someone's life. Its almost like saying that an Apache Longbow is a tool for air-drying your hair or air-conditioning because it could be used for it when this is clearly not the case and it's original intent.

On a side note; the whole Piers Morgan thing is pretty funny from where I'm sitting, basically people want to screw the 1st amendment because he spoke against the 2nd amendment...



sperrico87 on 27 December 2012
dsgrue3 said:
sperrico87 said:
dsgrue3 said:
ArnoldRimmer said:
sperrico87 said:
DieAppleDie said:
Guns should be permanned and stricktly controlled
guns are for military and police

Correction:  The right to keep and bear arms is to protect us from the military and the police.  

The founding fathers would probably be rolling on the floor laughing at the very prospect of citizens "protecting" themselves with guns against a military equipped with nuclear bombs, warships, guided missiles, tanks, warplanes...

The US military isn't going to murder the very citizens it has sworn to protect.

Ha! Oh really?  I take it you've never heard of the National Defense Authorization Act.  Or any countless number of other terrifying things the Government has allowed itself to do by either secret or public legislation and executive orders.

NDAA grants no new powers to the president in regard to US citizens. It pertains to terrorists. Read the bill, moron. 


The NDAA allows the government to assassinate American citizens without due process.  So, I suggest you read the bill.

Edit:  Name calling is forbidden here, so I suggest you don't do that.  Also, it's just plain rude.



 

snyps on 27 December 2012
NobleTeam360 said:
dsgrue3 said:
NobleTeam360 said:
dsgrue3 said:
sperrico87 said:
dsgrue3 said:
ArnoldRimmer said:
sperrico87 said:
DieAppleDie said:
Guns should be permanned and stricktly controlled
guns are for military and police

Correction:  The right to keep and bear arms is to protect us from the military and the police.  

The founding fathers would probably be rolling on the floor laughing at the very prospect of citizens "protecting" themselves with guns against a military equipped with nuclear bombs, warships, guided missiles, tanks, warplanes...

The US military isn't going to murder the very citizens it has sworn to protect.

Ha! Oh really?  I take it you've never heard of the National Defense Authorization Act.  Or any countless number of other terrifying things the Government has allowed itself to do by either secret or public legislation and executive orders.

NDAA grants no new powers to the president in regard to US citizens. It pertains to terrorists. Read the bill, moron. 

From what I read the bill pretains to U.S. citizens as well as terrorists. 

*Sigh

 

SEC. 1021. AFFIRMATION OF AUTHORITY OF THE ARMED FORCES OF THE UNITED STATES TO DETAIN COVERED PERSONS PURSUANT TO THE AUTHORIZATION FOR USE OF MILITARYFORCE.

(e) AUTHORITIES.—Nothing in this section shall be construed to affect existing law or authorities relating to the detention of United States citizens, lawful resident aliens of the United States, or any other persons who are captured or arrested in the United States.

 


Huh haven't read it in a while so I guess they must have changed it. But thats great news. 


@dsgrue3

 

Are you a constitutional lawyer?  Don't think so,  so next time you call someone a moron do it in a mirror.  I couldn't. Get this video embedded but please take a minute to see the truth about the ndaa 2012.  It'll just take one minute.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=37iFfDSEINY&feature=youtube_gdata_player