By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - Politics Discussion - Gun control debate issues that bother me. Will Libertarians and Republicans please address these?

dsgrue3 said:
Kasz216 said:
http://www.infowars.com/myth-busted-yes-the-ndaa-does-apply-to-americans-and-heres-the-text-that-says-so/

"The key to subsection 1021(e) is its claim that sec. 1021 does not “affect existing law or authorities” relating to the detention of persons arrested on U.S. soil. If the President’s expansive view of his own power were in statute, that statement would be true. Instead, the section codifies the President’s view as if it had always existed, authorizing detention of “persons” regardless of citizenship or where they are arrested. It then disingenuously says the bill doesn’t change that view."


It finalizes things that already allowed it, albeit through more temporary measures.


Again, doesn't do anything in regard to US citizens. The key to this is it is now under the purview of the President's Authority to detain people, which previously was not the case.

US citizens are still protected by due process.

Tell that to the American citizen that Obama ordered the assassnation of.  

Which is the point.  The law codifies what is essentially Obama's opinion on what does and doesn't count as due process.

For another example using the other aisle.  If this happened during the Bush presidency with this wording, but was a bill on torture.  The bill would codify in law, Bush's stance that waterboarding is not torture.



Around the Network
Kasz216 said:
dsgrue3 said:
Kasz216 said:
http://www.infowars.com/myth-busted-yes-the-ndaa-does-apply-to-americans-and-heres-the-text-that-says-so/

"The key to subsection 1021(e) is its claim that sec. 1021 does not “affect existing law or authorities” relating to the detention of persons arrested on U.S. soil. If the President’s expansive view of his own power were in statute, that statement would be true. Instead, the section codifies the President’s view as if it had always existed, authorizing detention of “persons” regardless of citizenship or where they are arrested. It then disingenuously says the bill doesn’t change that view."


It finalizes things that already allowed it, albeit through more temporary measures.


Again, doesn't do anything in regard to US citizens. The key to this is it is now under the purview of the President's Authority to detain people, which previously was not the case.

US citizens are still protected by due process.

Tell that to the American citizen that Obama ordered the assassnation of.  

Which is the point.  The law codifies what is essentially Obama's opinion on what does and doesn't count as due process.

For another example using the other aisle.  If this happened during the Bush presidency with this wording, but was a bill on torture.  The bill would codify in law, Bush's stance that waterboarding is not torture.

LMFAO, Anwar al-awlaki? He was Al Queda, US citizen or not. That is a known terrorist. Justice was served. If you don't want to be killed, don't be or associate with terrorists. Pretty simple.



dsgrue3 said:

LMFAO, Anwar al-awlaki? He was Al Queda, US citizen or not. That is a known terrorist. Justice was served. If you don't want to be killed, don't be or associate with terrorists. Pretty simple.

So as long as due-process is inconvenient, and the government says someone has done something, then there is no reason to give someone a fair trial before you kill them?



HappySqurriel said:
dsgrue3 said:

LMFAO, Anwar al-awlaki? He was Al Queda, US citizen or not. That is a known terrorist. Justice was served. If you don't want to be killed, don't be or associate with terrorists. Pretty simple.

So as long as due-process is inconvenient, and the government says someone has done something, then there is no reason to give someone a fair trial before you kill them?

 

Are you telling me Al Queda isn't a terrorist group?

If you're the getaway driver for a home invasion robbery and your accomplice(s) end up killing the home owners, you (the getaway driver) are complicit and equally as guilty.

Same principle here.



dsgrue3 said:

Are you telling me Al Queda isn't a terrorist group?

If you're the getaway driver for a home invasion robbery and your accomplice(s) end up killing the home owners, you (the getaway driver) are complicit and equally as guilty.

Same principle here.


So if someone is accused of being a getaway driver does that mean they are no longer entitled to due-process? Can we just get rid of these pesky trials for serious crimes and start shooting suspected criminals in the street?



Around the Network
HappySqurriel said:
dsgrue3 said:

Are you telling me Al Queda isn't a terrorist group?

If you're the getaway driver for a home invasion robbery and your accomplice(s) end up killing the home owners, you (the getaway driver) are complicit and equally as guilty.

Same principle here.


So if someone is accused of being a getaway driver does that mean they are no longer entitled to due-process? Can we just get rid of these pesky trials for serious crimes and start shooting suspected criminals in the street?

Again, Al Queda is a known terrorist group. No trial necessary. If the getaway driver were associated with Al Queda, you might have a point. As it stands currently, you do not.



dsgrue3 said:

Again, Al Queda is a known terrorist group. No trial necessary. If the getaway driver were associated with Al Queda, you might have a point. As it stands currently, you do not.

Since it is inconvenient to arrest gang members in Detroit does that mean the government has free reign to kill gang members?

 



HappySqurriel said:
dsgrue3 said:

Again, Al Queda is a known terrorist group. No trial necessary. If the getaway driver were associated with Al Queda, you might have a point. As it stands currently, you do not.

Since it is inconvenient to arrest gang members in Detroit does that mean the government has free reign to kill gang members?

 

What do you not understand about terrorism? Gang members in detroit are not terrorists. 



dsgrue3 said:

What do you not understand about terrorism? Gang members in detroit are not terrorists. 


In what way are gang members different enough from terrorists to invalidate a person's rights?



HappySqurriel said:
dsgrue3 said:

What do you not understand about terrorism? Gang members in detroit are not terrorists. 


In what way are gang members different enough from terrorists to invalidate a person's rights?

Terrorists target a country, gangs target themselves. Problem?