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Forums - General Discussion - If I could not see colors could you help me perceive them?

Dr.Grass on 20 December 2012

Utterly impossible.



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cyberninja45 on 20 December 2012
Dr.Grass said:
Utterly impossible.

Why would you say it is impossible?



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cyberninja45 on 20 December 2012
kain_kusanagi said:
cyberninja45 said:
kain_kusanagi said:
cyberninja45 said:
kain_kusanagi said:
I would listen to tons of classical music and use clips that I think FEEL like the each color.

For example blue might feel like Moonlight Sonata and Yellow might feel like Ode to Joy.

Would that not be very subjective


Yes, but what isn't?

Facts are not subjective

Colors are subjective, just like music. We aren't talking about math.

Ask a professional pigmentation engineer to describe the color Red and you'll get a bunch of facts. Ask a kindergartener to describe red and you will be emotions and/or feels.

If I was going to describe color to the blind I'd rather bring a kindergartener instead of the pigment engineer.

So in a way you are saying there is no right or wrong way to perceive colors.



My 3ds friendcode: 5413-0232-9676 (G-cyber)



dsgrue3 on 20 December 2012
cyberninja45 said:
dsgrue3 said:
cyberninja45 said:
dsgrue3 said:
cyberninja45 said:
dsgrue3 said:
You are focussed on optical illusions and light. I'm taking a crayon out of a box. In normal incandescent light, it will appear the same to everyone who can perceive color. Do you agree?

 

It could appear the same or totally different to each individual that watches it. The way I perceive "red" does not have to be same way you perceive it.

"Each subject was asked to tune the color of a disk of light to produce a pure yellow light that was neither reddish yellow nor greenish yellow. Everyone selected nearly the same wavelength of yellow, showing an obvious consensus over what color they perceived yellow to be. Once Williams looked into their eyes, however, he was surprised to see that the number of long- and middle-wavelength cones—the cones that detect red, green, and yellow—were sometimes profusely scattered throughout the retina, and sometimes barely evident. The discrepancy was more than a 40:1 ratio, yet all the volunteers were apparently seeing the same color yellow."

http://www.rochester.edu/news/show.php?id=2299

False.

So you are saying you can help someone who cannot see colors perceive them then. So if we go by this experiment would we be able to one day see new colors? As in the hypothetical question I asked the1. Here it is

But lets for arguments sake use the electromagmetic spectrum and varying wavelenghts of light, this also means that there are many  different "colors" that we don't detect with our eyes (due to the size of their wavelenghts). If by some form of evolution in the future we were able to detect these light of different wavelenghts and frequencies with our eyes would our brain perceive them as "new colors"?

Huh? I offered direct confirmation to the contrary of your post that colors can be perceived totally differently. That's entirely fallacious. And I do not care to comment on the above post as a result of your obtuseness to this fact.

Huh? I agreed with the experiment in your link "that color is perceived the same way", that is why I offered the question to you. So if you understand and agree with the experiment yourself  you should be able to answer it on your judgement and rationale.

Or is there not a link for that?

Yeah, but you also said that I agree that I can help someone perceive colors. That isn't what the experiment showed at all, but I do agree with that statement. I've seen at least one documentary about utilizing computers with blind people to produce some form of "sight" albeit quite limited.

So you're asking if we start seeing infrared, would we perceive this as a "new" color? I would imagine, although I cannot even fathom what it would look like.



cyberninja45 on 20 December 2012
dsgrue3 said:
cyberninja45 said:
dsgrue3 said:
cyberninja45 said:
dsgrue3 said:
cyberninja45 said:
dsgrue3 said:
You are focussed on optical illusions and light. I'm taking a crayon out of a box. In normal incandescent light, it will appear the same to everyone who can perceive color. Do you agree?

 

It could appear the same or totally different to each individual that watches it. The way I perceive "red" does not have to be same way you perceive it.

"Each subject was asked to tune the color of a disk of light to produce a pure yellow light that was neither reddish yellow nor greenish yellow. Everyone selected nearly the same wavelength of yellow, showing an obvious consensus over what color they perceived yellow to be. Once Williams looked into their eyes, however, he was surprised to see that the number of long- and middle-wavelength cones—the cones that detect red, green, and yellow—were sometimes profusely scattered throughout the retina, and sometimes barely evident. The discrepancy was more than a 40:1 ratio, yet all the volunteers were apparently seeing the same color yellow."

http://www.rochester.edu/news/show.php?id=2299

False.

So you are saying you can help someone who cannot see colors perceive them then. So if we go by this experiment would we be able to one day see new colors? As in the hypothetical question I asked the1. Here it is

But lets for arguments sake use the electromagmetic spectrum and varying wavelenghts of light, this also means that there are many  different "colors" that we don't detect with our eyes (due to the size of their wavelenghts). If by some form of evolution in the future we were able to detect these light of different wavelenghts and frequencies with our eyes would our brain perceive them as "new colors"?

Huh? I offered direct confirmation to the contrary of your post that colors can be perceived totally differently. That's entirely fallacious. And I do not care to comment on the above post as a result of your obtuseness to this fact.

Huh? I agreed with the experiment in your link "that color is perceived the same way", that is why I offered the question to you. So if you understand and agree with the experiment yourself  you should be able to answer it on your judgement and rationale.

Or is there not a link for that?

Yeah, but you also said that I agree that I can help someone perceive colors. That isn't what the experiment showed at all, but I do agree with that statement. I've seen at least one documentary about utilizing computers with blind people to produce some form of "sight" albeit quite limited.

So you're asking if we start seeing infrared, would we perceive this as a "new" color? I would imagine, although I cannot even fathom what it would look like.

Now thats a better response and a very interesting one, well the only response I got actually from someone on the thread. So your saying there could be other colors outside the spectrum. But why would it be near impossible to at least imagine it?

It's not like you are using your eye to observe (which might be impossible) it would be in your mind.



My 3ds friendcode: 5413-0232-9676 (G-cyber)



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dsgrue3 on 20 December 2012
cyberninja45 said:

Now thats a better response and a very interesting one, well the only response I got actually from someone on the thread. So your saying there could be other colors outside the spectrum. But why would it be near impossible to at least imagine it?

It's not like you are using your eye to observe (which might be impossible) it would be in your mind.


It's definitiely imaginable, I just meant I couldn't fathom how it would appear. It's information overload and would probably interfere with our perception now, making everything hazy instead of clear. Kinda like motion blur, except with heat. Well, with infrared anyway.  



cyberninja45 on 20 December 2012
dsgrue3 said:
cyberninja45 said:

Now thats a better response and a very interesting one, well the only response I got actually from someone on the thread. So your saying there could be other colors outside the spectrum. But why would it be near impossible to at least imagine it?

It's not like you are using your eye to observe (which might be impossible) it would be in your mind.


It's definitiely imaginable, I just meant I couldn't fathom how it would appear. It's information overload and would probably interfere with our perception now, making everything hazy instead of clear. Kinda like motion blur, except with heat. Well, with infrared anyway.  

Literally mind=blown then, but still possible hmmm interesting.



My 3ds friendcode: 5413-0232-9676 (G-cyber)



Dr.Grass on 20 December 2012
cyberninja45 said:
Dr.Grass said:
Utterly impossible.

Why would you say it is impossible?


It is utterly impossible.

And that's that.

;)

But no really, it is. One could prove it mathamatically, I'm just not gonna do it here.



wfz on 20 December 2012

I would tell you the following:

 

The sun is what yellow feels like
Fire is what orange and red feel like
Grass and leaves are what green feels like
The ocean is what blue sounds/feels like
The dirt is what brown feels like
silence is what white feels like
crickets and other nighttime sounds are what black feels like



dsgrue3 on 20 December 2012
Dr.Grass said:
cyberninja45 said:
Dr.Grass said:
Utterly impossible.

Why would you say it is impossible?


It is utterly impossible.

And that's that.

;)

But no really, it is. One could prove it mathamatically, I'm just not gonna do it here.

Interested to know why you think that when the blind are able to see grainy black and white images using technology.

http://www.smartplanet.com/blog/smart-takes/bionic-eye-to-help-the-blind-see/25186

Why do you think color is so difficult? It's one additional step.