SlayerRondo said:
Player1x3 said:
dsgrue3 said:
Player1x3 said:
- Mao-Tse-Tung, Atheist: 40 million plus dead
- Joseph Stalin, Atheist: 20 million plus dead
- Adolf Hitler, Atheist: 15 million dead
- Vladimir Lenin, Atheist: 5.5 million dead
- Kim-Il-Sung, Atheist: 5 million dead
- Pol Pot, Atheist: 2 million dead
- Fidel Castro, Atheist: 1 million dead
(all in time span of max 70 years)
Vs.
- Catholic Inqusition: (time span: 500+ years) 20-30.000 dead
- The Crusades : (time span:200+ years) 1.5-2 million dead
Atheist dictators killed millions of people over the past century, and caused more death in a much shorter time span than almost any other catastrophe that has happened in the civilized world, and imprisoned or murdered hundreds of thousands in an effort to eradicate religion itself, because, you know, mass murder is the inevitable result when a community becomes too intolerant of outlandish dogmas and too fond of critical thinking. Oh the irony!
|
Hitler was not an atheist.
"Hitler seeking power, wrote in Mein Kampf, "... I am convinced that I am acting as the agent of our Creator. By fighting off the Jews. I am doing the Lord's work." Years later, when in power, he quoted those same words in a Reichstag speech in 1938.
Crusades estimates are quite poor, it varies between 1 and 9 million. You are on the low end.
Your argument is a poor one, comparing the acts of a few to anyone sharing their views.
EDIT: The religious wars are based upon religion, the wars from those leaders you presented do not stem from atheism. It's entirely irrelevant. HUGE difference.
|
Everyone who was close to Hitler said that he was an atheist. In the public he presented himself as a christian to turn th people agaisnt the Jews. Example from his own book:
To whom should propaganda be addressed? … It must be addressed always and exclusively to the masses… The function of propaganda does not lie in the scientific training of the individual, but in calling the masses' attention to certain facts, processes, necessities, etc., whose significance is thus for the first time placed within their field of vision. The whole art consists in doing this so skilfully that everyone will be convinced that the fact is real, the process necessary, the necessity correct, etc. But since propaganda is not and cannot be the necessity in itself … its effect for the most part must be aimed at the emotions and only to a very limited degree at the so-called intellect… it's soundness is to be measured exclusively by its effective result". (Main Kampf, Vol 1, Ch 6 and Ch 12)
The book Hitler's Secret Conversations 1941-1944 published by Farrar, Straus and Young, Inc.first edition, 1953, contains definitive proof of Hitler's real views. The book was published in Britain under the title, _Hitler's Table Talk 1941-1944, which title was used for the Oxford University Press paperback edition in the United States.
All of these are quotes from Adolf Hitler:
Night of 11th-12th July, 1941:
National Socialism and religion cannot exist together.... The heaviest blow that ever struck humanity was the coming of Christianity. Bolshevism is Christianity's illegitimate child. Both are inventions of the Jew. The deliberate lie in the matter of religion was introduced into the world by Christianity.... Let it not be said that Christianity brought man the life of the soul, for that evolution was in the natural order of things. (p 6 & 7)
10th October, 1941, midday:
Christianity is a rebellion against natural law, a protest against nature. Taken to its logical extreme, Christianity would mean the systematic cultivation of the human failure. (p 43)
14th October, 1941, midday:
The best thing is to let Christianity die a natural death.... When understanding of the universe has become widespread... Christian doctrine will be convicted of absurdity.... Christianity has reached the peak of absurdity.... And that's why someday its structure will collapse.... ...the only way to get rid of Christianity is to allow it to die little by little.... Christianity the liar.... We'll see to it that the Churches cannot spread abroad teachings in conflict with the interests of the State. (p 49-52)
...and theres waay more where this came from. Just tell me if you want more quotes and the links
Hitler had the biggest respect for muslim and tradition japanese religions. He also said that it is unfortunate, that the german religion is the Christian one.
The HIGHEST tool for the deaths in Crusades in around 3 million (source:wikipedia) and I used 1.5-2 million mark to be fair. I have no idea what kind of crap Dawkins made you believe.
And you should know this argument very well, because apparently, Middle Age Catholic church represents whole Christianity and every Christian person today...oh wait, double standards are atheist exclusive, right?
And LOL at '' entirely irrelevant''. Communism is a political belief that is agaisnt religion and promotes anti-theism (which is an extreme form of atheism). Are you going to convince me that people were able to follow their religion freely and worship whatever they want in any of those countries led by those people. Sure, they didnt kill people for being ahtiests, but they did for being theists. Thats like saying ''KKK didnt lynch people for being black, they lynched them for not being white !''
|
Hitler was an insane and evil person with a twisted morale system. He is not representative of the athiest community as 99.99999% of athiest today would say his actions were detestable and wrong. Ask muslims is they think its ok to kill or threaten to kill Salman Rushdie and you will get (in the UK) about 50% yes 50% no. My problem is with people who do detestable things in the name of religion or support detestable things in the name of religion as well as playing off things told in the bible as facts to their children without teaching them critical thinking skills.
Wow, you people are seriosuly desperate. At least try to cover your bias and hypocracy. Do you think todays christians support what Catholic Church did in Middle Ages? And do you really beleive 50% of muslims support Al Quaide? Of course they dont. But this ''He is not representative of the xxx community'' only comes up when its the atheists who come up in bad light. WHy dont you ever stop for a second and apply the same logical thinking when it comes to religios people as well? Oh right, the hypocrisy.
No i dont think that todays christins support what the Catholic church did in the middle ages at all. I do not claim that Christians are the problem but rather the religions themselves. I don't think 50% of muslims support Al Quaide but i would say that about 50% of them believe that criticising the prophet or burning the kuran should be a capital offence. Some Christians today support not teaching evolution as fact and that because the bible says so gay marriage should not be allowed. These are the religious effects on todays society that i find damaging.
Plus there is a good reason why the likes of Hitler and Stalin oppossed religion and promoted athiesm. It's because there systems of dictatorship demand the same type of unquestioning support that the systems imposed by religion do. Religion has more in common with these tyrants that todays athiest do and they therefore make a poor argument for proving the evils of athiesm.
I wasnt trying to prove evils of atheism. Unlike you and your kind (in this thread), I dont judge the whole group of people based on few individuals and i judge their belief system on itself, not on thier most extreme and fundamentalist followers. I was just showing that the killing s argument can be applied to both christian and atheist authority trough history.
I apologise then as i agree that correlation and causation are not the same thing and simply saying this person was A and B does not mean A caused B and so on.
Im sure you're an intelligent person and i believe that if you really look at all the evidence provided by science you will come to the conclusion that all current religions can be disproved and that the existence of god cannot be confirmed so you might as well go on with your life and wait till the end for answers on the afterlife.
There is 0 evidence ofor non existence of God , and this is highly off topic, so i wont bother to discuss this. And my view on God is much different than the mainstream christian theist is,
There is evidence both historic and scientific that disprove practically all organized religions bar the ones that are to vague to lock down. There will likely never be evidence that proves conclusively that there is no god but that's no reason to go round acting like he's cares what you do. Just do what you think is right and that's the best you can do.
Couple of points that convinced me to abandon thiesm (can't do them all) was the fact that
99.8% of all animals are extinct (and most of them were not us)
The grotto salamander that has eyes that retact into its head while growing leaving the creature blind. This creature, adapting to the cave environment for millions of years is midway in the evolutionary process where its eyes are no longer a weakness in a total darkness environment but the creature still has them just like we skill have appendix despite having no need of them for thousands of years.
Uh...ok.
Uh...ok. is not a very compelling response from someone who suposedly belives that the world was created by god an all powerfull, all knowing superbeing who scored an 0.2% on the species creating test
PS: Yes the crusades killed between 1.5-2 million people. This is quite simply due to the combination of lower population levels and military technology available at the time. Trecking accross the middle east and storming castles was a slow and costle buisness back then lets not forget.
And dont forget the mentality of people in 11th and 12th century was much less civilised then the one in 20th century...
But also a time a great and terrible change
|
