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Forums - Gaming - Xbox 720 & PS4 codenames revealed, Microsoft’s ‘Oban’ chip still delayed – rumour

VGKing on 12 December 2012
Squilliam said:
VGKing said:
Squilliam said:
The only console maker with a perfect record for reliability is Nintendo.

Nope. No one has a  "perfect" record. I know my N64's reset button was stuck. The analog stick also sucked ass(as in most of my controllers broke at some point).
Every single console has had its share of problems. Nothing compares to RROD though. Microsoft will probably hold that records forever.

Yep the stick sucked however you could probably excuse them for being the first ones of of the gate with a new physical control scheme.

The thing with RROD was that it struck nVidia, Sony, Microsoft and a whole slew of companies to a various degree. Whilst for instance Sony created a better console all phat PS3's will fail for the exact same reason as all Xbox 360's. Lead free solder is probably one of the worst things which happened to consumer electronics reliability in the history of consumer electronics. Even relatively modern designs will likely develop tin whiskers or fractures in the solder with time. Microsoft had one of the first new high power devices to come out with lead free solder and Sony had a years worth of design experience to draw upon.

http://www.ecnmag.com/articles/2011/12/was-lead-free-solder-worth-effort

""Replacing tin-lead with pure tin is turning out to have been a huge mistake. There are two significant differences between lead-free assembly and lead-based assembly."

"1. Lead-free assembly is not better for the environment, it is worse. The additional tin mining required to produce high-purity tin alloys, plus the mining of other precious metals required to alloy with tin in substitution for lead is a poor trade for the use of existing lead, much of which comes from recycled products. This information comes from a study conducted by the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA). The study undercuts the primary basis for RoHS.

"2. Lead-free assembly is less reliable than lead-based assembly. The E.U. environmental commission admits this point. That's why they grant exceptions for military and high-reliability applications that still use SnPb solder. (Ref. 3)

Microsoft was just as much a victim of circumstance as they were from their own ineptness at the time. Sony was also a victim of the same circumstance and hence the crappy reliability of the PS3 as well.

PS3 failure rates were within industry standards, I'm sure.
Xbox 360 failures rates were way below. Yes this lead-free thing was probably a problem for everyone which is why the 360 shouldn't have been released so early.



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Solid-Stark on 12 December 2012

You guys really went out on a limb here huh.

Anyway, its good to hear that they are making progress with these new chips. All consoles having AMD will only be good for AMD, which is something I want.



e=mc^2

Gaming on: PS4 Pro, Switch, SNES Mini, Wii U, PC (i5-7400, GTX 1060)

Soleron on 12 December 2012
Solid-Stark said:
You guys really went out on a limb here huh.

Anyway, its good to hear that they are making progress with these new chips. All consoles having AMD will only be good for AMD, which is something I want.

AMD's still dead despite this.



Normando on 12 December 2012
RaiderMX said:

DigitalDevilSummoner said:

The 360 is the one of the worse pieces of hardware ever made and it is only natural that reputation will stay with the brand even at this early in next gen console development.

?

I will stilll buy the next xbox day 1......

Is pretty easy, there is nothing interesing to me in PS3.

I don't like Metal Gear, I don't like Gran Turismo, I don't like Killzone, I don't like Untarched, I don't like God of War, I don't like inFamous, I don't like Resistance.

(Note: "like" is the key word. I'm not saying that those are bad games in any way[they are good games], just that they aren't my thing)

I also dislike the PSN, the layout of the playstation controller...

To put it simple, even if you gifted me a PS3, there are only 2 outcomes: I would sold it to buy games for my 360, or I would use it as a bluray player...

And, no, isn't logical... I have a friend who liked all the games above, but disliked games as Halo, Gears, Forza, Fable, etc. And he had a 360! (He always complained of course, and no-one was ever able to understand why he bought the 360... price perhaps?)


^ This guy! See! It's possible to like one console without thinking the other is crap...not going to mention any names...Keep up the work good sir.



Cobretti2 on 12 December 2012
VGKing said:
Squilliam said:
The only console maker with a perfect record for reliability is Nintendo.

Nope. No one has a  "perfect" record. I know my N64's reset button was stuck. The analog stick also sucked ass(as in most of my controllers broke at some point).
Every single console has had its share of problems. Nothing compares to RROD though. Microsoft will probably hold that records forever.

You can actually get ball type analoge sticks for N64 controllers now, similar to GCN.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-REPLACEMENT-Joystick-for-Nintendo-64-Controller-Repair-N64-Thumbstick-Pad-/290796251684?

Only thing I dont know is how accurate it is, as obviously the design is different

e.g when I played zelda OOT on N64 vs gcn version I felt liek the controls were designed to wrk with the original stick. The ball stick in the gcn felt liek it wasn tas accurate when moving around. COuld be just my imagination though lol.



 

 

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Solid-Stark on 12 December 2012
Soleron said:
Solid-Stark said:
You guys really went out on a limb here huh.

Anyway, its good to hear that they are making progress with these new chips. All consoles having AMD will only be good for AMD, which is something I want.

AMD's still dead despite this.

Perhaps so. But they wouldn't necessarily disappear, they would only be bought off.



e=mc^2

Gaming on: PS4 Pro, Switch, SNES Mini, Wii U, PC (i5-7400, GTX 1060)

S.T.A.G.E. on 13 December 2012
Nsanity said:
DigitalDevilSummoner said:
kowenicki said:


Hardware is just about motherboards?

Once again... I'm talking about build quality, user experience.  The current PS3 is frankly pretty cheap, cheap plastics and some flimsy mechanisms. Not a criticism, just an observation.

the motherboard design was the main reason behind RROD. so 2008 is the significant year in 360's life

And what you talking about "build quality, user experience" is subjctive airtalk. the current PS3 could be made out of cupboard for all I care.

Does it break, over heat, scratch your discs, make noise, burn or demand more power ? No.

 

sales2099 said:

The lure is just too good that you just come back.

Blatant lie.

All the gaming media were reporting was how awesome MS was with their warranty and tried to make it sound like the competiton had similar problems with the so called YOLD.

 

 

What? The 360 got its fair share of bashing from the American Gaming Media due to the RROD, so enough with the lies.

Microsoft is better than the others at public relations. When the media asked them about RROD, they used to 49/51 logic, stating that the amount of users who had the RROD wasnt the majority. That ended it really quick.



BlueFalcon on 13 December 2012
Soleron said:
AMD's still dead despite this.

If you are so confident in this prediction, I presume you bought a ton of puts / shorted the stock ? You'd be a millionaire very soon. . . 

AMD has at least 12 months before any panic. They have enough cash position and support from Mubadala Group to weather the storm and then who knows what happens in 2014 in terms of their design wins/consumer trends. Also, worst case scenario someone buys them out. I've heard "AMD is dead/soon to be bankrupt" talk for at least 10 years now. It shows up and goes away and comes back again. Companies go through tough periods and recover. 

As far as the rumors go, I can't see PS4 launching 12 months after Xbox 720. I would presume they would launch within 6 months of each other at the latest. Sony said publicly on many occassions they are not giving MS a 12 months start and they are not repeating the same mistake of $600 price. 



Soleron on 13 December 2012
Solid-Stark said:
Soleron said:
Solid-Stark said:
You guys really went out on a limb here huh.

Anyway, its good to hear that they are making progress with these new chips. All consoles having AMD will only be good for AMD, which is something I want.

AMD's still dead despite this.

Perhaps so. But they wouldn't necessarily disappear, they would only be bought off.

Their graphics division has value. Their CPU division? Not really. They're about 40% behind on IPC and it would take billions of additional investment and at least five years to overcome that, at the end of which they'd be competing with a company still ten times the size by most metrics and with an unassailable process technology lead (22nm by two years, 14nm by over three) AND in a shrinking market (desktops and high-end laptops). Also their current contract states their x86 license is void in the event of a buyout, so add a few billion in settlement money to Intel first.

Any sane company wishing to make custom CPUs would just buy into custom ARM chips, and maybe a few key hires from AMD which should be easy.

--

@BlueFalcon

I don't gamble like that. If I had $1000 I didn't need I'd certainly have it on a <$1 AMD put option for about a year's time.

Their roadmap is frankly shit. 20% performance increase by 2015 was their own estimate. Meanwhile Intel is 40% ahead and will be getting more ahead on process tech all the time.

I agree they won't die immediately, but they will cease to be competitive at all by say Q2 next year and cannot recover.

They have no hope of design wins without process tech parity or a competitive core, neither of which they have plans for. Prices are already cut as much as they can be.



Darth Tigris on 13 December 2012

That chip manufacturing rumor from Semiaccurate was from over 3 months ago. And even they stated the problems could be worked out in time. They said the problems would have to be worked out by February 2013 to meet the supposed September 2013 release date.

So the rumor is ... well, a rumor AND it's horribly outdated. Nothing to see here...