On a more on topic note. I understand that paying for Live means that you get more stable online service. But why make you pay to use things like Netflix? It's not any better than the Netflix you use everywhere else and you're already paying for it. What if I don't play alot of online games but I want to use my 360 to watch movies?

How is Live a more stable online service than PSN?

because it is and I have 5 years of data to prove it...... I was the network admin of my house, and I run Tomato USB shabby firmware on my router..... I keep logs up to the second on every single connection in the house...... and the

now the big problem I see with most people is there incapacity of doing math obviously and their miss understanding of the "Free" world, they are so used to think everything is free like using that website, using google search, getting freeware here and there.... thinking all that stuff is actually free.... none of that is free and cost you more than 60 bucks a year the only difference it's you are not physically giving yourself 60 bucks out of your pocket so it feels like its free cheap and honest and great.... it's not.... and freeware most of them are not meant to be free they are meant to be donation based but you freeloaders forget about that of course..... I pay more to all the donation based software devs and websites that need cash for hosting than I give to MS for XBL every year so how could I in my right mind pretend that 60 bucks for their service is not a great value ???? heck my Proxy service is more expensive than that..... when I think about it I don't know many things you can get for 5 bucks a month....
bottom line I feel more abused by websites like youtube and google (with no ad blocker of course) than by paying 60 a year on XBL.... do you have any idea how much you represent for google/youtube just in ad revenue??? money you have a rightful claim upon, but since it doesn't directly come from your pocket you don't feel the major ass raping going on.... I'm not even talking about data mining, marketing research studies etc etc (and that even with your ad blockers, which btw if becoming a trend in casual users might generate more pay to access content in the long run, see freeloading doesn't pay back)
now I'm sorry even taking out multi player gaming that can arguably be considered like a service they could offer for free (then again on XBL you get a better QoS and that's a fact and paying for a better QoS is something I don't see a problem with) but beside that XBL gold have access to more stuff than PSN user even with + have so where is the comparaison ???? I'm not talking about the freebees cause I'm sure if I do the math with all the 50% discount gold only member receive across the 52 weeks of the year any game they loan on PSN+ still doesn't match the saving I can potentially make on these and I actually own them for ever in that case.....
so for 60 bucks a year I get voice chat (which for me at least is huge I have friends all around the globe and I can call them regularly have convo all together while gaming, watching a movie or listening to music, just that makes it worth it for me but lets continue) I get ESPN XB so on my TV (since I do not pay for cable or sat because I found that uber expensive since I don't watch TV much)
I get cloud storage and that also is a great thing to go around with your most played game saved online.... when ever at a friend's place I can log in with my account and my game saves (for a gamer it is a huge thing)
I get last.fm and iHeartRadio which is great to put music a la Pandora when having friends over...
and since I pay money MS has enough power to strike deals with every major TV provider so I can use my console as a media hub.... and you tell me that it is not worth 60 bucks a year (if I don't look for a discount for half that price) which I caver anyway through the saving I'll make on the deals they have for us... so yeah once again I'd rather pay 60 bucks I'm "getting back" anyway than don't pay anything up front and have less than what I currently get...

what I agree with is why not let access to hulu+ and Netflix to silver and I think that's the major point butt hurting people..... but then again now a days a 20 bucks DVD player has an Netflix or hulu app, your TV heck your PC can probably stream in wi fi or wi di to one of your device.... your ISP box even.... so while I'd concede on hulu+ and Netflix in todays tech environment it's a non issue IMO.....

bottom line my combo XB+XBL+internet connection is the only entertainment center I use in the house for the past 3 years.... not my BR player, no TV cable or sat, heck not even that much steam any more (have too many game to play already) and I barely use my PC for entertainment beside news/forums/blogs/ and looking up stuff pretty much became a surfing box outside of work....

so yeah once again how can 60 bucks be too much for what I get and no the other don't offer what I get for 60 bucks for free that is plain false......

Call it PSN

for me will never be unquestionable. pay for on-line functionality will never be right in my eyes. that reason alone keep me from buying a xbox360 to this day. @OP - the services you mention are only valid choices for NA, in the rest of the world, some are available, some are not, so not much of a choice...

Unlike others i don't have any friends in XBLive, so no value at all for me.

I agree 100% with this. If I want to burn $40 a year on XBL and believe it worth the value I do not see any problem with it.

Include "Xbox Plus" and give away 1 retail or XBLA game per month. That'll shut up the naysayers.

It already has unquestionable value for me.

But here's what it would take to make it unquestionable value for everyone (even for haters)

- PSN + like program where you get heavily discounted games and game rentals (as well as themes, avatars and dlc) until you quit the service (includes both arcade, indie, and full digital download games) plus 1 game a month for free that you will always own

- Free subscription to your service of choice with a maximum value of $9.99 per month (Netflix, Hulu Plus, etc)

- Free Xbox music pass (which normally costs $9.99) with the ability to download any music that you want on your xbox (and any other device that supports Zune) and play it as long as you have live plus 10 free songs a month that you keep forever.

- 2 movie rentals and 5 TV show rentals a month (much like PSN + games, these would be available to you until you quit the service)

- 800 free microsoft points a month (worth $10)

- Automatic updates

- 50 GB of cloud storage

- A box of chocolates with a smiley face on it sent to your house every single week.

Well, I was going to put "theoretically" but I didn't want to ruffle to many feathers as that wasn't the point of my post. But the interface with Live tends to run a bit smoother even though PSN has a pretty similar interface now. Honestly in my pretty considerable experience with both online services I don't find PSN any more laggy during games and I don't ever have trouble finding matches or anything like that on either console.

The PSN store has whats trendy now. They re-did the whole look. The only thing i hate about the PSN store is that it still feels disconnected and loads slower than the last one which wasnt as fashionable, but was still. Outside of that its still good and a very nice set up for next  gens console.