By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - General - We must reach an agreement on the meaning of "flop"

 

A game flopping should be based on...

Profits 53 54.08%
 
Publisher/Developer Expectations 36 36.73%
 
Forum member's Expectations 9 9.18%
 
Total:98
IIIIITHE1IIIII said:
The profit method is not perfect either though. If a game brings far less money than even the developer had expected, it is safe to say that the x amount of years spent developing the game could have been spent developing something better with more profits.

Wasting potential time and money could be flop material, as I see it.

Good point.

Also, how exactly do you determine a game's budget? Some people said PSASBR looked like a cheap PSN game, but I don't believe that. I don't believe they believe either.



Around the Network
Kresnik said:
Profits.

The expectation method seems to be based on "If a game is mentioned on the forums here at VGChartz, then it has been 'hyped beyond belief' on the whole of the internet and thus causes people to expect 1 million + week one sales". Which of course is ludicrous.

Of course, as countless games have shown, week 1 sales =/= an indication of lifetime sales, but most people don't have time/aren't going to be a member here long enough to wait around and see if a game has legs or not so we just get flop threads based on the first available data. I'm led to believe there's some sort of tradition around here about this though, which doesn't make it right but at least explains it.

The problem with basing it on profits is that without access to game budgets we're going to have no idea what is a flop and what is a success. If Heavenly Sword can't break even off 1.5 million sold but the Yakuza series gets regular sequels off a ~ 1 million fanbase then it causes problems. Thus, people make threads off week 1 sales because at least it's a talking point.


Agreed.  

As for the last paragraph. We can typically determine whether or not a studio makes profit. Of course, we can never determine the exact profit cutoff point, but we can make approximations. If a game looks really cheap, then it probably doesn't need much sales, and would probably be a success with a few 100k sold. We can especially determine if a game made a profit after it releases. If the publishers seems to encourage making more sequels, then it probably was a success. However, if the studio shut down immediately after development, then they probably didn't make sufficient profit.



Chandler said:
Jay520 said:

 MAJOR flop

 

First of all,

 

Second, I agreee with this. When we call games flop we tend to move the line a lot. I don't think expectation flops like NSMB2 and sales flops like LBP Karting should be put together. But what can we do a bout this? I guess we could call sales flops bombas and expectation flops - flops. 

first off - lols.

second - it's not like we know anything about what is or is not profitable.  i remember certain wii games selling like 50k and being told it profited and then certain ps360 games selling 2M but then being told it tanked financially.  ..but those are just guesses based on expectations.

i voted expectations.  it's the only thing we can actually measure against.  besides, that allows for more drama which is always fun.  how can you not be entertained by 3DS's 250k being a huge disappointment and vitas 150k being celebrated?  



A flop is nice and all, but what about a major flop (like PSABR)



IIIIITHE1IIIII said:

The profit method is not perfect either though. If a game brings far less money than even the developer had expected, it is safe to say that the x amount of years spent developing that game could have been spent developing something better with more profits.

Wasting potential time and money could be flop material, as I see it.


Yeah, I said earlier that "I think the expectation method should ONLY be used when using the expectations of actual publisher." If we can get the expectations of publishers and developers, then by all means, use those expectations as a means for determining if a game flopped. By the expectations of forum-goers? I don't think so.



Around the Network

The latter is the technical definition of a flop, however a generalized number of unit sales is often given to determine if a game is a flop or not.

It is generally accepted that in Gen 7 an AAA game requires at least 1 million unit sales to be break even or get near it.  A smaller game likely doesn't require as many units sold in order to break even and some games may require more. 



miz1q2w3e said:
Jay520 said:

But a game cannot be a flop while simultaneously not being a flop. This will not due. One of the methods must supercede the other.

Of course it can't. I'm saying the condition for a flop be an OR statement.


How do we know which to apply and when?



it depends from which perspective you look at it. let's say developer, the developer wants to make profit so if he reaches a profit it could be a success as long as it wasn't much below expectations which could mean he will make other games in the future which he expects higher profit from.

as gamer, let's say someone who wants to play online with a "healthy" online community, the games has to sell a decent amount because otherwise the online community will die fast and you won't find enough online games anymore or the developer will shut down the servers if there aren't enough people even if you want to play it online for years.



Jay520 said:
miz1q2w3e said:
Jay520 said:

But a game cannot be a flop while simultaneously not being a flop. This will not due. One of the methods must supercede the other.

Of course it can't. I'm saying the condition for a flop be an OR statement.

How do we know which to apply and when?

A mathematical OR means: If either one is true, then the whole statement (and conclusion) is true. This is the only true way.



miz1q2w3e said:
Jay520 said:
miz1q2w3e said:
Jay520 said:

But a game cannot be a flop while simultaneously not being a flop. This will not due. One of the methods must supercede the other.

Of course it can't. I'm saying the condition for a flop be an OR statement.

How do we know which to apply and when?

A mathematical OR means: If either one is true, then the whole statement (and conclusion) is true. This is the only true way.

But since we can only actually measure against the expectation method. I vote that one.