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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Predicting the Next-Gen: The Future of PS4 and X3ox

 

Am I right in my analysis?

Hellz to the yeah! 39 32.23%
 
Oh, Heeeellz no! 43 35.54%
 
I think you're forgettin... 24 19.83%
 
I'm too stupid to unders... 12 9.92%
 
Total:118
Squilliam on 28 November 2012
DanneSandin said:
Squilliam said:
DanneSandin said:
Squilliam said:
Why do people think that the big games won't take advantage of extra performance if say the PS4 or Xb3 are say twice as powerful as the other? If you're creating COD MW4 or GTA 6 or Elder Scrolls 6 which are massive franchises with expected sales in the region of over $500M you've got at least $100M to burn so why not make the game look like you spent the money on it? I would predict that for the games which actually matter that any performance difference would be obvious to the end user.

I think that there will be a graphical difference between a powerful console and a more... modest system, but the difference will be in the line of high end PCs and PS360 - and not like PS360 graphics to Wii's... Question is if it'll be enough to make the game actually better.

High end PCs represent a tiny proportion of the PC market. Besides this, high end PCs don't have money thrown down by console manufacturers for extra content as we've seen in this generation. If say 2/5ths of your market has a significant performance advantage and your game is a 10M+ selling franchise then it is entirely plausible for developers to take advantage of that performance. The thing is these 10M+ games are the ones which matter so having the 'best' version is certainly a good notch to have in ones belt as a console manufacturer.

Yes, of course a high profile franchise will use the power of the stronger console - just like PCs have better graphics than PS360. But that doesn't make it a better game. It makes it prettier. And that's what I was trying to say; developers are going to make the games on of the consoles look as good as possible if they can, just like the PC. But that doesn't mean the game will use the full power of the console. Will the game have better physics? No. Will it have better AI? no. Will it look better? Yes. Does that mean a better game? No.Battlefield 3 looks better on PC, but is it a better game than the versions on PS360? THAT'S what I'm talking about.

If developers design their games to scale between the Wii U and other next generation consoles then it is plausible that they will scale if there is a difference in performance between the Xbox 3 and PS4. Even if this is not the case then having more stable frame-rates and better visuals is still offering a better gameplay experience all else being equal.



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Squilliam on 28 November 2012
sethnintendo said:
Squilliam said:
DanneSandin said:
Squilliam said:
Why do people think that the big games won't take advantage of extra performance if say the PS4 or Xb3 are say twice as powerful as the other? If you're creating COD MW4 or GTA 6 or Elder Scrolls 6 which are massive franchises with expected sales in the region of over $500M you've got at least $100M to burn so why not make the game look like you spent the money on it? I would predict that for the games which actually matter that any performance difference would be obvious to the end user.

I think that there will be a graphical difference between a powerful console and a more... modest system, but the difference will be in the line of high end PCs and PS360 - and not like PS360 graphics to Wii's... Question is if it'll be enough to make the game actually better.

High end PCs represent a tiny proportion of the PC market. Besides this, high end PCs don't have money thrown down by console manufacturers for extra content as we've seen in this generation. If say 2/5ths of your market has a significant performance advantage and your game is a 10M+ selling franchise then it is entirely plausible for developers to take advantage of that performance. The thing is these 10M+ games are the ones which matter so having the 'best' version is certainly a good notch to have in ones belt as a console manufacturer.

Yet Nintendo outsells all other games when it comes to 10m+ sales (except for CoD, etc).  The better hardware doesn't always equate to more sales.  Take Blizzard for example, they never push the PC too much because they want as many sales as possible.  They offer a decent product that will run on almost all "recently" new machines.  Pushing graphics to the maximum (Crysis, whatever game you want to put here) will never result in as many sales as you could if you take a decent game concept and make it playable on almost all semi recent machines.  I don't disagree with anything you have to say but I wanted to expand on it.

Gameplay is very important when it comes to sales. Blizzard games run well and are more fun to play on a wide variety of hardware whereas games like Crysis only run well on a small percentage of hardware. Nintendo games and COD games both target 60FPS and Halo 3 controller latency was measured at nearly the lowest out of all 30FPS games in the current generation at the time. You can get better gameplay with well designed hardware.



Tease.

DanneSandin on 28 November 2012
Squilliam said:
DanneSandin said:
Squilliam said:

High end PCs represent a tiny proportion of the PC market. Besides this, high end PCs don't have money thrown down by console manufacturers for extra content as we've seen in this generation. If say 2/5ths of your market has a significant performance advantage and your game is a 10M+ selling franchise then it is entirely plausible for developers to take advantage of that performance. The thing is these 10M+ games are the ones which matter so having the 'best' version is certainly a good notch to have in ones belt as a console manufacturer.

Yes, of course a high profile franchise will use the power of the stronger console - just like PCs have better graphics than PS360. But that doesn't make it a better game. It makes it prettier. And that's what I was trying to say; developers are going to make the games on of the consoles look as good as possible if they can, just like the PC. But that doesn't mean the game will use the full power of the console. Will the game have better physics? No. Will it have better AI? no. Will it look better? Yes. Does that mean a better game? No.Battlefield 3 looks better on PC, but is it a better game than the versions on PS360? THAT'S what I'm talking about.

If developers design their games to scale between the Wii U and other next generation consoles then it is plausible that they will scale if there is a difference in performance between the Xbox 3 and PS4. Even if this is not the case then having more stable frame-rates and better visuals is still offering a better gameplay experience all else being equal.

Oh yes, but I reckon we won't see gimped ports like the Wii got, or what do you think? I mean, some of those games were almost new games and not simply ports!



I'm on Twitter @DanneSandin!

Furthermore, I think VGChartz should add a "Like"-button.

Soundwave on 28 November 2012


I think hardware wise we'll be looking at

720 > PS4 >>>> Wii U

2TFLOP+ performance for both the 720/PS4, but MS will pony up a few extra bucks to get more RAM and few other bells and whistles into their system because they can afford to eat a loss to win the living room.

I also don't think the Wii U will be that close to the 720/PS4. You will notice 2TFLOP vs. ~300-350 GFLOP in performance difference. Especially as this next-gen goes on and more and more games start to take advantage of the 720/PS4. It's not going to be some small difference, it will grow to a large chasm. 



DanneSandin on 28 November 2012
Soundwave said:


I think hardware wise we'll be looking at

720 > PS4 >>>> Wii U

2TFLOP+ performance for both the 720/PS4, but MS will pony up a few extra bucks to get more RAM and few other bells and whistles into their system because they can afford to eat a loss to win the living room.

I also don't think the Wii U will be that close to the 720/PS4. You will notice 2TFLOP vs. ~300-350 GFLOP in performance difference. Especially as this next-gen goes on and more and more games start to take advantage of the 720/PS4. It's not going to be some small difference, it will grow to a large chasm. 

Bolded is all I understood... But it sounds as if you believe we'll have another Wii situation on our hands? Nintendo only getting gimped ports, is that about right?



I'm on Twitter @DanneSandin!

Furthermore, I think VGChartz should add a "Like"-button.

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Squilliam on 29 November 2012
DanneSandin said:
Squilliam said:

If developers design their games to scale between the Wii U and other next generation consoles then it is plausible that they will scale if there is a difference in performance between the Xbox 3 and PS4. Even if this is not the case then having more stable frame-rates and better visuals is still offering a better gameplay experience all else being equal.

Oh yes, but I reckon we won't see gimped ports like the Wii got, or what do you think? I mean, some of those games were almost new games and not simply ports!

I really can't say though it depends on the game design. I could see how  some games which are CPU heavy with strong AI, rigid body physics etc would not run very well on the Wii U.



Tease.

DanneSandin on 29 November 2012
Squilliam said:
DanneSandin said:
Squilliam said:

If developers design their games to scale between the Wii U and other next generation consoles then it is plausible that they will scale if there is a difference in performance between the Xbox 3 and PS4. Even if this is not the case then having more stable frame-rates and better visuals is still offering a better gameplay experience all else being equal.

Oh yes, but I reckon we won't see gimped ports like the Wii got, or what do you think? I mean, some of those games were almost new games and not simply ports!

I really can't say though it depends on the game design. I could see how  some games which are CPU heavy with strong AI, rigid body physics etc would not run very well on the Wii U.

And that's one of the reasons that worries me, as a Nintendo fan and gamer; I don't wanna get a second console and playing on PC can really be such a pain!!



I'm on Twitter @DanneSandin!

Furthermore, I think VGChartz should add a "Like"-button.

Squilliam on 29 November 2012
DanneSandin said:
Squilliam said:
DanneSandin said:
Squilliam said:

If developers design their games to scale between the Wii U and other next generation consoles then it is plausible that they will scale if there is a difference in performance between the Xbox 3 and PS4. Even if this is not the case then having more stable frame-rates and better visuals is still offering a better gameplay experience all else being equal.

Oh yes, but I reckon we won't see gimped ports like the Wii got, or what do you think? I mean, some of those games were almost new games and not simply ports!

I really can't say though it depends on the game design. I could see how  some games which are CPU heavy with strong AI, rigid body physics etc would not run very well on the Wii U.

And that's one of the reasons that worries me, as a Nintendo fan and gamer; I don't wanna get a second console and playing on PC can really be such a pain!!

The problem is that any modern X86 core will absolutely smoke the Wii U CPU and the Wii U looks like the odd one out in terms of CPU performance. It'll be OK if either the PS4/Xbox 3 use only say 4 Jaguar cores from AMD at say 1.8Ghz. However if they use say 8 of them then it might cause problems for porting games to the Wii U because whilst it is easy to strip graphics detail back it isn't very easy to change the core program.



Tease.

DanneSandin on 29 November 2012
Squilliam said:
DanneSandin said:
Squilliam said:
DanneSandin said:
Squilliam said:

If developers design their games to scale between the Wii U and other next generation consoles then it is plausible that they will scale if there is a difference in performance between the Xbox 3 and PS4. Even if this is not the case then having more stable frame-rates and better visuals is still offering a better gameplay experience all else being equal.

Oh yes, but I reckon we won't see gimped ports like the Wii got, or what do you think? I mean, some of those games were almost new games and not simply ports!

I really can't say though it depends on the game design. I could see how  some games which are CPU heavy with strong AI, rigid body physics etc would not run very well on the Wii U.

And that's one of the reasons that worries me, as a Nintendo fan and gamer; I don't wanna get a second console and playing on PC can really be such a pain!!

The problem is that any modern X86 core will absolutely smoke the Wii U CPU and the Wii U looks like the odd one out in terms of CPU performance. It'll be OK if either the PS4/Xbox 3 use only say 4 Jaguar cores from AMD at say 1.8Ghz. However if they use say 8 of them then it might cause problems for porting games to the Wii U because whilst it is easy to strip graphics detail back it isn't very easy to change the core program.

Well,. I know nothing of tech so I'm just gonna go a head and trust you on this. I wouldn't mind if Wii U got lower graphics compared to PS720, but if the core game play is effected, like you suggest, we'll have another Wii situation and I'll make a "Nintendo betrayed us" thread.



I'm on Twitter @DanneSandin!

Furthermore, I think VGChartz should add a "Like"-button.

HoloDust on 29 November 2012
DanneSandin said:
Squilliam said:

I really can't say though it depends on the game design. I could see how  some games which are CPU heavy with strong AI, rigid body physics etc would not run very well on the Wii U.

And that's one of the reasons that worries me, as a Nintendo fan and gamer; I don't wanna get a second console and playing on PC can really be such a pain!!


So far, it really seems that CPU is just not strong enough - and all that talk about how "GeePeeGeePee U" will somehow miraculously take over functions of CPU is....silly, to put it mildly. They "may" be able to put physics on it, but a lot of game code is not at all that well suited for GPUs. Above that, and that's even more important, you have situation where current HD consoles have strong enough CPUs, PCs have strong CPUs and next-gen MSony offerings will have strong CPUs. Everyone has it, except for WiiU - hm, wondering, what route 3rd parties will take....;)

Still, I don't think it is PS360-Wii type of situation. WiiU is mostly structured as 360, it's GPU has more or less the same features as next MSony consoles, though a lot less power, so from GPU side there shouldn't be lot of problems to downscale (though that might make for some quite bad looking games in some extreme cases, where there was no further optimization). As for CPU and that memory bandwith, I guess we'll just have to wait and see some more games that are CPU intensive - I'm really looking forward to Digital Foundry's Assassin's Creed 3 Wii U face-off, that game both has lot of charachters at the same time on screen and I think Ubi put some effort in it.

As for whether or not you will have to get another console (or embrace PCs) - I have no doubt that Ninty's 1st parties will run flawlessly, but it seems to me that if you intend to play lot of 3rd parties, you might have to do just that - even if you have no problem with "downscaled everything" on future next-gen WiiU ports, it really seems there will be quite a few titles that won't be seeing their WiiU versions coming to life for whatever reason.