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Forums - Gaming - DEAR VIDEO GAME JOURNALISTS......

forevercloud3000 said:
F0X said:
RolStoppable said:
think-man said:
Best article iv read in ages! we should be comparing vita games to 3ds games not console games.

And how would that help the Vita?


I suppose being compared to a first-rate, modern handheld is preferable to being compared to losing, aging consoles.

Meaning we must raise the standards for Vita games for the platform's own good.

what does that mean? The same way we judge an elementary student against his peers and not against college students. 3Ds is its only direct competition and psp is vita's benchmark. Thats how it should b judged. Not the top down method of rating it from a console pov. 

If u read the vita reviews u can see what fans r talking about. In comparison to 3ds vita  looks amazing.


No, no, no. You misunderstand - it's good for Vita games to be held to as high of standards as possible, so that only good games succeed. Therefore, Vita games must be held to the same unreasonable standards that Nintendo games are typically held, which is completely fair and beneficial to everyone in the long term.



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forevercloud3000 said:

what does that mean? The same way we judge an elementary student against his peers and not against college students. 3Ds is its only direct competition and psp is vita's benchmark. Thats how it should b judged. Not the top down method of rating it from a console pov. 

If u read the vita reviews u can see what fans r talking about. In comparison to 3ds vita  looks amazing.

There is another way to look at this ...

Between the PC and XBox 360 I have played many of the best reviewed HD console games of the previous generation, I played most of the best Wii games, and I have played many of the best Nintendo DS and 3DS games and (in general) as long as a game has pretty graphics and an online mode most reviewers seem completely willing to ignore repetitive gameplay, significant glitches, and limited content; and as a result of this many HD console/PC games are not reviewed using the same standards that Nintendo games are.

If people are claiming that a PS-Vita game is short, repetitive and glitchy for a HD console game the game is probably a steaming pile ...

 

 

The same reviewers who will give a HD console games top marks even though it is a yearly release with (almost) no innovation will trash Nintendo because they didn't completely re-define a genre when they release a game 5 years apart. Trust me, you don't want Assassin's Creed or Call of Duty held to the same standards as a game like New Super Mario 2 because the games would (likely) drop 20% in aggregate score.



RolStoppable said:
Chandler said:

True. But I think the PSV is favoured by VG journalists. It doesn't help the device, but still.

 

Funny thing is, PSV games are compared to PS3 games and get trashed and 3DS games are compared to PSV games and get trashed even more. That's how it feels to me.

Let's see...

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-08-17-saturday-soapbox-how-do-you-solve-a-problem-like-mario

NSMB 2 is still a fine game, no doubt, but time was when a new Mario platformer was something of an event. In his review earlier this week, Oli claimed to be "blasphemously bored" for portions of the game, and as a fellow Mario fan I'd be inclined to agree. When an argument can be made that it's not even the best platformer of the week - Jonathan Mak's musical oddity Sound Shapes may be flawed but it's undeniably the more inventive game of the two - then you have a cause for concern.

You are right.


Yet Eurogamer.net gave...

  • New Super Mario Bros. 2 = 8/10
  • Sound Shapes = 7/10


      

      

      

Greatness Awaits

PSN:Forevercloud (looking for Soul Sacrifice Partners!!!)

F0X said:
forevercloud3000 said:
F0X said:
RolStoppable said:
think-man said:
Best article iv read in ages! we should be comparing vita games to 3ds games not console games.

And how would that help the Vita?


I suppose being compared to a first-rate, modern handheld is preferable to being compared to losing, aging consoles.

Meaning we must raise the standards for Vita games for the platform's own good.

what does that mean? The same way we judge an elementary student against his peers and not against college students. 3Ds is its only direct competition and psp is vita's benchmark. Thats how it should b judged. Not the top down method of rating it from a console pov. 

If u read the vita reviews u can see what fans r talking about. In comparison to 3ds vita  looks amazing.


No, no, no. You misunderstand - it's good for Vita games to be held to as high of standards as possible, so that only good games succeed. Therefore, Vita games must be held to the same unreasonable standards that Nintendo games are typically held, which is completely fair and beneficial to everyone in the long term.

I'm not seeing how that is benefitial to anyone. 3DS is never compared with Wii or god forbid the WiiU. It is compared to DS,PSP, and Vita whom are it's peers. When a reviewer says "This game could have been don on DS", that is a valid point to make if they feel that way. Yet if they were to start saying "This Mario game pales in comparison to Super Mario Galaxy WiiU", that is ridiculous.

Lets be honest here, when it comes to portable gaming, consumers are far more lenient on what is appropriate. Mostly because the games are much cheaper than full console games(or at least should be) and we only need them to amuse for shorter burst of time. So when consumers see these review scores, because we all know most don't even read them, they are guaging them for that basis. When you rate a portable game a 6/10 consumers thoughts go "Oh.......this must be a really bad game......for a handheld". The key part being "for a handheld", they think that score is propriated in relation to what handheld games should be, not console gaming.

The problem here is that games for Vita, in a perfect world, are a 8s and 9s for what they are in the portable arena, yet if you throw them against AAA titans they appear to be 4s and 5s. Not a fair comparison, and its almost being done on purpose in order to drum up hits from all the rage.



      

      

      

Greatness Awaits

PSN:Forevercloud (looking for Soul Sacrifice Partners!!!)

RolStoppable said:
forevercloud3000 said:

Yet Eurogamer.net gave...

 

  • New Super Mario Bros. 2 = 8/10
  • Sound Shapes = 7/10

 

That's still favorable for the PSV, because the games aren't close in quality.

..........? Are you serious or are you pulling one of your awkward/backwards humor gags on me? Sound Shapes, regardless of its price has about as much content as a full retail game. I just looked up NSMB2 walkthrough and basically says the game consists of 9 Worlds with about 5-10 levels in each, lets just say 90 playable worlds and collectables. Sound Shapes has 12 Worlds with about 5 levels in each except the last which has about 10. Thats about 65 levels + collectables + the User Generated stuff which makes the possibilities endless. Quality of either is not the issue here, only the way each of them is portrayed by the reviewers.....one is more scrutinized even tho it's better by their admittion.



      

      

      

Greatness Awaits

PSN:Forevercloud (looking for Soul Sacrifice Partners!!!)

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forevercloud3000 said:
F0X said:
forevercloud3000 said:
F0X said:

I suppose being compared to a first-rate, modern handheld is preferable to being compared to losing, aging consoles.

Meaning we must raise the standards for Vita games for the platform's own good.

what does that mean? The same way we judge an elementary student against his peers and not against college students. 3Ds is its only direct competition and psp is vita's benchmark. Thats how it should b judged. Not the top down method of rating it from a console pov. 

If u read the vita reviews u can see what fans r talking about. In comparison to 3ds vita  looks amazing.


No, no, no. You misunderstand - it's good for Vita games to be held to as high of standards as possible, so that only good games succeed. Therefore, Vita games must be held to the same unreasonable standards that Nintendo games are typically held, which is completely fair and beneficial to everyone in the long term.

I'm not seeing how that is benefitial to anyone. 3DS is never compared with Wii or god forbid the WiiU. It is compared to DS,PSP, and Vita whom are it's peers. When a reviewer says "This game could have been don on DS", that is a valid point to make if they feel that way. Yet if they were to start saying "This Mario game pales in comparison to Super Mario Galaxy WiiU", that is ridiculous.

Lets be honest here, when it comes to portable gaming, consumers are far more lenient on what is appropriate. Mostly because the games are much cheaper than full console games(or at least should be) and we only need them to amuse for shorter burst of time. So when consumers see these review scores, because we all know most don't even read them, they are guaging them for that basis. When you rate a portable game a 6/10 consumers thoughts go "Oh.......this must be a really bad game......for a handheld". The key part being "for a handheld", they think that score is propriated in relation to what handheld games should be, not console gaming.

The problem here is that games for Vita, in a perfect world, are a 8s and 9s for what they are in the portable arena, yet if you throw them against AAA titans they appear to be 4s and 5s. Not a fair comparison, and its almost being done on purpose in order to drum up hits from all the rage.


Good thing you qualified that statement with "in a perfect world", because I would tear it up more effectively than scissors on paper.

I was making something of a joke earlier, partly in hopes you'll go even further in defending your position so I can better understand it, and therefore better argue against it. It worked.

Anyway, Sony brought this on themselves. They're literally marketing the Vita as a provider of "console gaming on the go", which is pretty much an open invitation to console game comparison. To make matters worse, games like Uncharted or Assassin's Creed don't make full use (or improperly use) Vita's unique features, which in my opinion harms the case for their existence. Why make a Vita game that doesn't play to the platform's strengths? Simply trying to recreate a console experience is not enough. Instead, it would be much better for Sony to focus on exclusive games for Vita and then give them console-quality (or nearly so) presentation, and preferably not use an IP that's better off sticking to consoles. LittleBigPlanet is a great example of an IP that worked perfectly well with Vita's features and portability. It should be a model for all future Vita games to come.

Once Vita stops trying to be a "portable console" and really starts being a "dedicated handheld" like the 3DS, then I can imagine fairer comparisons made. If not, at least Vita will have better games.



3DS Friend Code: 0645 - 5827 - 5788
WayForward Kickstarter is best kickstarter: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1236620800/shantae-half-genie-hero

RolStoppable said:
forevercloud3000 said:

..........? Are you serious or are you pulling one of your awkward/backwards humor gags on me? Sound Shapes, regardless of its price has about as much content as a full retail game. I just looked up NSMB2 walkthrough and basically says the game consists of 9 Worlds with about 5-10 levels in each, lets just say 90 playable worlds and collectables. Sound Shapes has 12 Worlds with about 5 levels in each except the last which has about 10. Thats about 65 levels + collectables + the User Generated stuff which makes the possibilities endless. Quality of either is not the issue here, only the way each of them is portrayed by the reviewers.....one is more scrutinized even tho it's better by their admittion.

I admit that I had never watched a gameplay video of Sound Shapes before I had written my previous post, so let me correct myself.

NSMB2 and Sound Shapes aren't close in quality, period.

Sound Shapes looks like a flash game. I didn't even realize the magnitude of the insult in that Eurogamer editorial before. This is just terrible. If someone likes to play Sound Shapes, more power to them. But pretending that you get anything close to a Mario title with this game is sick and wrong.

Sound Shapes was made by an indie developer, right? Because that would explain the score.


The key here is that Sound Shapes is a download-only indie game, so it gets extra points for being cheap in price despite being cheap in design.

We all know that reviews have little to do with the quality of a game anyway.



3DS Friend Code: 0645 - 5827 - 5788
WayForward Kickstarter is best kickstarter: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1236620800/shantae-half-genie-hero

RolStoppable said:
F0X said:

The key here is that Sound Shapes is a download-only indie game, so it gets extra points for being cheap in price despite being cheap in design.

We all know that reviews have little to do with the quality of a game anyway.

But the game apparently costs $14 or $15. That's not cheap.


I know. That's probably what kept it from getting a 90+. A $15 downloadable indie game must look more artsy (or retro-artsy) in order to reach such praise. Fez managed an 89 meta this way.



3DS Friend Code: 0645 - 5827 - 5788
WayForward Kickstarter is best kickstarter: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1236620800/shantae-half-genie-hero

RolStoppable said:
F0X said:

I know. That's probably what kept it from getting a 90+. A $15 downloadable indie game must look more artsy (or retro-artsy) in order to reach such praise. Fez managed an 89 meta this way.

Hm, what's the Metascore of Shantae: Risky's Revenge?


85. Would be higher if WayForward wasn't such a sellout.



3DS Friend Code: 0645 - 5827 - 5788
WayForward Kickstarter is best kickstarter: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1236620800/shantae-half-genie-hero

F0X said:
forevercloud3000 said:

I'm not seeing how that is benefitial to anyone. 3DS is never compared with Wii or god forbid the WiiU. It is compared to DS,PSP, and Vita whom are it's peers. When a reviewer says "This game could have been don on DS", that is a valid point to make if they feel that way. Yet if they were to start saying "This Mario game pales in comparison to Super Mario Galaxy WiiU", that is ridiculous.

Lets be honest here, when it comes to portable gaming, consumers are far more lenient on what is appropriate. Mostly because the games are much cheaper than full console games(or at least should be) and we only need them to amuse for shorter burst of time. So when consumers see these review scores, because we all know most don't even read them, they are guaging them for that basis. When you rate a portable game a 6/10 consumers thoughts go "Oh.......this must be a really bad game......for a handheld". The key part being "for a handheld", they think that score is propriated in relation to what handheld games should be, not console gaming.

The problem here is that games for Vita, in a perfect world, are a 8s and 9s for what they are in the portable arena, yet if you throw them against AAA titans they appear to be 4s and 5s. Not a fair comparison, and its almost being done on purpose in order to drum up hits from all the rage.


Good thing you qualified that statement with "in a perfect world", because I would tear it up more effectively than scissors on paper.

I was making something of a joke earlier, partly in hopes you'll go even further in defending your position so I can better understand it, and therefore better argue against it. It worked.

Anyway, Sony brought this on themselves. They're literally marketing the Vita as a provider of "console gaming on the go", which is pretty much an open invitation to console game comparison. To make matters worse, games like Uncharted or Assassin's Creed don't make full use (or improperly use) Vita's unique features, which in my opinion harms the case for their existence. Why make a Vita game that doesn't play to the platform's strengths? Simply trying to recreate a console experience is not enough. Instead, it would be much better for Sony to focus on exclusive games for Vita and then give them console-quality (or nearly so) presentation, and preferably not use an IP that's better off sticking to consoles. LittleBigPlanet is a great example of an IP that worked perfectly well with Vita's features and portability. It should be a model for all future Vita games to come.

Once Vita stops trying to be a "portable console" and really starts being a "dedicated handheld" like the 3DS, then I can imagine fairer comparisons made. If not, at least Vita will have better games.

Your statements prove you have not played Assassin's Creed III: Liberations, Uncharted:Golden Abyss, or probably any of the recent Vita games.

ACIII:L is built around short burst missions, doesn't do too much dueling with ACIII's story as not to cause continuity issues, uses touch for only the most effecient of things (like swiping the back pad to pickpocket, touch targeting enemies for chain kills, and menu options), Aveline is a well crafted character with a lot of personality, doesn't dwell on a lot of exposition so gameplay isn't impeded. Not to mention adds an entire new layer of mechanics with the Personas. Only downside I can say of ACIII:L is the ridiculous camera use where you have to put it up at a light but no light in my house seems to be bright enough, or small glitches every now and then with enemy/treasure placement.

Uncharted GA is similar and i would put them at the same level. Missions are short burst, concentrates on puzzles and collectables much more than console versions (which I like), etc. Dislikes would be the less than ND level story,same camera/light trick crap, pulling doors open with tough way to often.

Both of these games are assuredly in 8 range for a portable system, especially when taking into consideration that they do almost look like console games visually.

...............

As for it bbeing Sony's fault for the confusion, I call false. Yes, Sony's advertisments claim "Console like quality on the go", but that doesn't say treat it like it's a console game, because it obviously isn't. There is that "like" in there, does not say it "IS".This could mean many things. I think it refers most with the fact Vita can have almost any input the PS3 could have and then some, as well as the graphics are comparable. Meaning the system doesn't have to sacrifice design quality due to silly handheld limitation like lacking a second analog.

You see names like Uncharted and Assassin's Creed and you immediately deem them as wannabe console games, when both are very fair attempts at the portable design philosophy and retaining the originals charm. Mario/Zelda started on console as well, but it doesn't get lambasted every time it moves to handheld.



      

      

      

Greatness Awaits

PSN:Forevercloud (looking for Soul Sacrifice Partners!!!)