And yet you're also guilty for thinking too simply. "This gen the consumers decided to splite between PS3 and X360." That's consumers, in general. Your arguments lack any demographic insight. No two consumers have the same tastes. You'd really think there are as many JRPG fans in the 360 userbase as those in the PS3 userbase? smh. The PS3 userbase has a much larger JRPG fanbase and when SE decided to drastically change FFXIII's original identity, it alientated much of the JRPG fanbase, that a lot of those potential sales went down the drain.

"What you're telling us is that companies should ignore the market and blindly release titles on the sucessor system everytime to expect the same result. It just isnt the case at all. It seems like the recipe for disaster if you look at the Vita for example." That... made me laugh... a lot. Nice try at stretching forevercloud3000's argument beyond its intended message. In case you didn't know, SE has already did what you just stated. The company ignored much of the JRPG market with terrible decisions such as excruciating linearity, no towns, and continuance of FFXIII when no one asked SE to do so. SE blindly released FFXIII-2 expecting better reception than FFXIII. Didn't work. Now, it's blindly going to release Lightning Returns in hilarious hope to save a series that was never meant to be.

And yet you're also guilty for thinking too simply. "This gen the consumers decided to splite between PS3 and X360." That's consumers, in general. Your arguments lack any demographic insight. No two consumers have the same tastes. You'd really think there are as many JRPG fans in the 360 userbase as those in the PS3 userbase? smh. The PS3 userbase has a much larger JRPG fanbase and when SE decided to drastically change FFXIII's original identity, it alientated much of the JRPG fanbase, that a lot of those potential sales went down the drain.

"What you're telling us is that companies should ignore the market and blindly release titles on the sucessor system everytime to expect the same result. It just isnt the case at all. It seems like the recipe for disaster if you look at the Vita for example." That... made me laugh... a lot. Nice try at stretching forevercloud3000's argument beyond its intended message. In case you didn't know, SE has already did what you just stated. The company ignored much of the JRPG market with terrible decisions such as excruciating linearity, no towns, and continuance of FFXIII when no one asked SE to do so. SE blindly released FFXIII-2 expecting better reception than FFXIII. Didn't work. Now, it's blindly going to release Lightning Returns in hilarious hope to save a series that was never meant to be.

You can be linear without being claustrophobic inducing.Some of what was wrong with the game was scheduled from the start, but not all. I just find it frustrating that people try to say they didn't gimp this game even tho much of the evidence is overwhelming. SE has just been trying to save face with very terrible excuses.

• -Originally we were getting regularly updated on FFXIII's progress. The game was tentively dated for a while, but postponed. Then mysteriously the game goes dark for over a year...
• -FFXIII appears at  E3, only to first appear at the MS booth showing it is now MP.
• -Wada stated the decision to make FFXIII litterally happened days before E3..... Yet Wada promises  the 360 version would have no effect on the PS3 version. I call bullshit, no company makes such a large decision over a few days. It is obvious they had been in talks about it for a while.
• -Another article stated that PS3 development was completely done and they just needed to finish the port....which totally contradicts the idea that the game would not be delayed at all due to the port. The game litterally suffered another 6months+ delay because of 360. Wada previously promised this would not happen. I could have been content if PS3 got it first, then PS3 later (Which plenty of games have done in the reverse) but SE had to make sure they came out at the same time.
• -An interview with Nomura said that  the teams on the game were beyond pissed they had to all reallocate to FFXIII and mostly so the 2 versions (PS3/and 360) could be out at the same time. Nomura was later forced to retract this statement(IE like Cormick Rage dev).
• -A SE worker reveals that over the years of development, a game's worth of content was cut from FFXIII, including cities, pedestrians, mini-games, etc. SE explains this away by saying that is normal. In what universe? If they were truely deciding on a theme or style to go with, this would normally be decided in the CONCEPT ART phase. Anything else after the 3D models go into play would be a slight tweak, not a complete overhaul.
• -Square-Enix later admits after product testing the game, that they knew people would not like the fact it didn't have cities and was very linear. They decided to ship it anyway and re-use the stuff that would have been in it (if it fit) into another game, AKA FFXIII-2. Of course SE says it differently, something about they just "took what we learned and incorperated it into FFXIII-2".
• - I distinctly remember some concept art way back when that looked like one of the larger cities in FFXIII-2 :/
• - A statement was also made by a SE employee that "360 originally was thought to take up 7+ discs, but they later cut down on some stuff to make it all fit." Later forced to retract statement.

I am just baffled how we can ignore all this stuff and take SE's word after being caught in lie after lie. The game got botched big time. Maybe some of it was originally in the plans for FFXIII, but assuredly not all of the mishaps that was that game.

I wish I could find all the links to this stuff, but I am too lazy to dig for them right now.

"...Or maybe they just wanted to make use of all those assets they had left over, get a few free bucks out of it."

You can be linear without being claustrophobic inducing.Some of what was wrong with the game was scheduled from the start, but not all. I just find it frustrating that people try to say they didn't gimp this game even tho much of the evidence is overwhelming. SE has just been trying to save face with very terrible excuses.

• -Originally we were getting regularly updated on FFXIII's progress. The game was tentively dated for a while, but postponed. Then mysteriously the game goes dark for over a year...
• -FFXIII appears at  E3, only to first appear at the MS booth showing it is now MP.
• -Wada stated the decision to make FFXIII litterally happened days before E3..... Yet Wada promises  the 360 version would have no effect on the PS3 version. I call bullshit, no company makes such a large decision over a few days. It is obvious they had been in talks about it for a while.
• -Another article stated that PS3 development was completely done and they just needed to finish the port....which totally contradicts the idea that the game would not be delayed at all due to the port. The game litterally suffered another 6months+ delay because of 360. Wada previously promised this would not happen. I could have been content if PS3 got it first, then PS3 later (Which plenty of games have done in the reverse) but SE had to make sure they came out at the same time.
• -An interview with Nomura said that  the teams on the game were beyond pissed they had to all reallocate to FFXIII and mostly so the 2 versions (PS3/and 360) could be out at the same time. Nomura was later forced to retract this statement(IE like Cormick Rage dev).
• -A SE worker reveals that over the years of development, a game's worth of content was cut from FFXIII, including cities, pedestrians, mini-games, etc. SE explains this away by saying that is normal. In what universe? If they were truely deciding on a theme or style to go with, this would normally be decided in the CONCEPT ART phase. Anything else after the 3D models go into play would be a slight tweak, not a complete overhaul.
• -Square-Enix later admits after product testing the game, that they knew people would not like the fact it didn't have cities and was very linear. They decided to ship it anyway and re-use the stuff that would have been in it (if it fit) into another game, AKA FFXIII-2. Of course SE says it differently, something about they just "took what we learned and incorperated it into FFXIII-2".
• - I distinctly remember some concept art way back when that looked like one of the larger cities in FFXIII-2 :/
• - A statement was also made by a SE employee that "360 originally was thought to take up 7+ discs, but they later cut down on some stuff to make it all fit." Later forced to retract statement.

I am just baffled how we can ignore all this stuff and take SE's word after being caught in lie after lie. The game got botched big time. Maybe some of it was originally in the plans for FFXIII, but assuredly not all of the mishaps that was that game.

I wish I could find all the links to this stuff, but I am too lazy to dig for them right now.

And yet you're also guilty for thinking too simply. "This gen the consumers decided to splite between PS3 and X360." That's consumers, in general. Your arguments lack any demographic insight. No two consumers have the same tastes. You'd really think there are as many JRPG fans in the 360 userbase as those in the PS3 userbase? smh. The PS3 userbase has a much larger JRPG fanbase and when SE decided to drastically change FFXIII's original identity, it alientated much of the JRPG fanbase, that a lot of those potential sales went down the drain.

"What you're telling us is that companies should ignore the market and blindly release titles on the sucessor system everytime to expect the same result. It just isnt the case at all. It seems like the recipe for disaster if you look at the Vita for example." That... made me laugh... a lot. Nice try at stretching forevercloud3000's argument beyond its intended message. In case you didn't know, SE has already did what you just stated. The company ignored much of the JRPG market with terrible decisions such as excruciating linearity, no towns, and continuance of FFXIII when no one asked SE to do so. SE blindly released FFXIII-2 expecting better reception than FFXIII. Didn't work. Now, it's blindly going to release Lightning Returns in hilarious hope to save a series that was never meant to be.

This^

Thanks for explaining exactly what I have een trying to get across to him for the past few pages....

He seems to not realize consumers are creatures of habit. It takes multiple entries in a series to train consumers in which console's to get their games on. For instance, take the "Tales of.." series. The series has spanned far too many systems, so FANS of the series are hella confused on which system to get if they are to recieve the next tales game. With consistancy the fanbase know where to find the game and hence it will recieve more sales. Namco has FINALLY learned that. This is why Star Ocean suffered so greatly when they put it on 360 initially as an exclusive. Also fans would have been expecting it on PS3.

Take a look at the sales of something like FFXIII, with 4/6ths of sales on PS3. Its on both consoles so why is it not even or MORE on 360 seeing as it had the larger fanbase? Because....as I have said till I am blue in the face on these forums, games do NOT sell dramatically more due to larger userbase but simply grow or fluctuate with the fanbase's desire for it. And with that simple fact, there is no real reason to make a game multiplatform as it justs costs a company more money with sales they would have gotten anyway on one platform. Shit, FFXIII is the worst selling FF game in years for it's respective correspondence in the generation timeline. Every first entry of the series on a platform has been the top selling  for that gen since PS1, FFX sold 8m while FFXIII struggled for 6m.

Its funny to me, because his logic dictates that some mysteriously new "2million  adopters" got the 360 version and had never played a FF game before. Seriously? New adopters are subtle in their practice and usually only do so in small portions. Any reasonable person will tell you that majority of those buyers were already existing FF fans, same goes for on PS3. What it really means is that 2million consumers bought a 360 with its head start and cheaper price, whom might have gotten a PS3 once a game such as FF came out for it, if they didn't have the option of getting it for 360 (also mind you, the game was heavily bundled in the US and only for 360 as they had exclusive marketing rights for the game in US).

I'm just so done explain to people that games don't magically double sales(or increase at ALL in most cases) because they are spread across multiple consoles and it is foolish to think so. lol

Why dont you make the math on how much % of the installed base of Xbox360 in japan bought the game and how much of the PS3 one? Where are your fans now? Also dont forget to see how the game sold better in the X360 in the west than in the PS3.

As for FFXIII you are seeing in absolutes. Its not about wich console sells the most, its about making money!

In Italic, poor atempt at spinning. I never said those 2 millions were only new buyers. Recall me saying that not everyone buys the same system every gen? Yup, theres new buyers and theres old buyers that ditched the Playstation for various reasons. They ammounted to those 2 million, wich if you had your way would never have seen the game and square wouldnt have made as many sales.

What you have to understand is that the market is divided in half in share, but not necessarily with an equal ammount of consumer types across them. Releasing in both platforms might double sales or it might not, but it certainly increases overall sales than releasing in just one platform. Easy example: compare Halo sales with CoD sales. If Halo wasnt an Xbox exclusive it could potencially hit alot bigger numbers. Double? Not necessarily. I never made that argument, but definitly more.

Do you understand now why its best to have the game be multi-platform instead of PS3 exclusive? I bolded the why in this post, and i will 1-up that with reaching a higher overall number of fans. The idea that everyone should buy a playstation 3 to buy every series that ever came out in the playstation 1 and 2 exclusively and therefore the companies having better sales is completely obtuse. That can only be the case if the playstation 3 had the large majority of the market share. It happened with the PS2, but it didnt with the PS3. Time to learn that was the result. Why not blame Sony´s tardiness and arrogance price wise in the market? Those are the real reasons why the trend didnt continue.