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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Skyward Sword story inconsistencies (SPOILERS!)

fordy said:


Link became Vegeta!

"I wish to see your true form so I can fight it!"

Isn't that more Goku's style? Think the Frieza fight... go ahead, power up to 100%!



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the_dengle said:
fordy said:


Link became Vegeta!

"I wish to see your true form so I can fight it!"

Isn't that more Goku's style? Think the Frieza fight... go ahead, power up to 100%!


I thought Frieza was pretty much powered up by that time.

I was thinking more of Vegeta openly allowing Cell to absorb the androids and reach his "perfect form"



fordy said:
ClaudeLv250 said:

What you're asking for is the destruction of Demise in part/present/future, which would create a paradox as Demise would be wiped from the timeline. Skyloft would never be created and Link would never go on the journey to acquire the Triforce to make the wish in the first place.

As for the "old gods," Skyward Sword and some of the other newer Zeldas like Wind Waker have introduced more "gods" into the picture, and with Hylia being such a focus, it makes sense that they would classify Din/Farore/Nayru was the "old gods" from Hyrule's inception versus all the newer ones like Hylia that came somewhere down the line.

 


Wouldn't there be a paradox already in that if Ghirahim succeeds in reviving Demise in the past, he would not have the motive to do it in the present and therefore not go into the past? The game is already riddled with paradoxes. What I mentioned would only replace an already existing paradox with another.

 

I already explained the "old gods" in my above post. Why are those "new gods" no longer relevant in the games further down the series?

I agree on the paradoxes though. Can't explain why the storyline ends the way it does considering Demise is destoyed in the past too.

As for the old gods vs. the new ones...maybe the irrelevance is the explanation after all? I mean, I thought Hylia was just a lake until SS...just imagine how the people in, say, the time of LttP would feel about Hylia. Din/Farore/Nayru are synonymous with the creation of Hyrule. You can't forget them. But SS could be millenia before games like TP or LttP. And then there are lesser deities like Zephos and Cyclos that Link meets on a whim. Hyrule has so much history, all the gods can't stay relevant forever. By the point in time where the others are forgotten, using new and old as a distinction seems redundant.

And looking at the Zelda Wiki, there are way more deities in this series than I remembered.



Tag - "No trolling on my watch!"

ClaudeLv250 said:
fordy said:
ClaudeLv250 said:

What you're asking for is the destruction of Demise in part/present/future, which would create a paradox as Demise would be wiped from the timeline. Skyloft would never be created and Link would never go on the journey to acquire the Triforce to make the wish in the first place.

As for the "old gods," Skyward Sword and some of the other newer Zeldas like Wind Waker have introduced more "gods" into the picture, and with Hylia being such a focus, it makes sense that they would classify Din/Farore/Nayru was the "old gods" from Hyrule's inception versus all the newer ones like Hylia that came somewhere down the line.

 


Wouldn't there be a paradox already in that if Ghirahim succeeds in reviving Demise in the past, he would not have the motive to do it in the present and therefore not go into the past? The game is already riddled with paradoxes. What I mentioned would only replace an already existing paradox with another.

 

I already explained the "old gods" in my above post. Why are those "new gods" no longer relevant in the games further down the series?

I agree on the paradoxes though. Can't explain why the storyline ends the way it does considering Demise is destoyed in the past too.

As for the old gods vs. the new ones...maybe the irrelevance is the explanation after all? I mean, I thought Hylia was just a lake until SS...just imagine how the people in, say, the time of LttP would feel about Hylia. Din/Farore/Nayru are synonymous with the creation of Hyrule. You can't forget them. But SS could be millenia before games like TP or LttP. And then there are lesser deities like Zephos and Cyclos that Link meets on a whim. Hyrule has so much history, all the gods can't stay relevant forever. By the point in time where the others are forgotten, using new and old as a distinction seems redundant.

And looking at the Zelda Wiki, there are way more deities in this series than I remembered.

That's a lot of deities!

I often wondered if the Wind fish and Levias are one in the same. There were similar thoughts on if the sealed grounds ultimately become OoT's Temple of Time and the resting place for the Master Sword and the Triforce (I noticed when Zelda mentioned she needed to go into a deep sleep, a similar alter found to the North Palace in Zelda 2. Had she not been encased in Amber and actually did fall asleep, perhaps it could have been another branch towards Zelda 2 in which Zelda/Hylia was never awakened, and so forgotten throughout the ages.



One thing I learned from the Zelda series is that going back or forward in time screws everything up storywise.



Estelle and Adol... best characters ever! XD

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fordy said:


I thought Frieza was pretty much powered up by that time.

I was thinking more of Vegeta openly allowing Cell to absorb the androids and reach his "perfect form"

Oh. Yeah. That was dumb.

I guess the difference is that Goku actually could beat Frieza... whereas Vegeta got completely owned by Cell. Anyway Link might have that thing going on.



fordy said:
ClaudeLv250 said:
fordy said:
ClaudeLv250 said:

What you're asking for is the destruction of Demise in part/present/future, which would create a paradox as Demise would be wiped from the timeline. Skyloft would never be created and Link would never go on the journey to acquire the Triforce to make the wish in the first place.

As for the "old gods," Skyward Sword and some of the other newer Zeldas like Wind Waker have introduced more "gods" into the picture, and with Hylia being such a focus, it makes sense that they would classify Din/Farore/Nayru was the "old gods" from Hyrule's inception versus all the newer ones like Hylia that came somewhere down the line.

 


Wouldn't there be a paradox already in that if Ghirahim succeeds in reviving Demise in the past, he would not have the motive to do it in the present and therefore not go into the past? The game is already riddled with paradoxes. What I mentioned would only replace an already existing paradox with another.

 

I already explained the "old gods" in my above post. Why are those "new gods" no longer relevant in the games further down the series?

I agree on the paradoxes though. Can't explain why the storyline ends the way it does considering Demise is destoyed in the past too.

As for the old gods vs. the new ones...maybe the irrelevance is the explanation after all? I mean, I thought Hylia was just a lake until SS...just imagine how the people in, say, the time of LttP would feel about Hylia. Din/Farore/Nayru are synonymous with the creation of Hyrule. You can't forget them. But SS could be millenia before games like TP or LttP. And then there are lesser deities like Zephos and Cyclos that Link meets on a whim. Hyrule has so much history, all the gods can't stay relevant forever. By the point in time where the others are forgotten, using new and old as a distinction seems redundant.

And looking at the Zelda Wiki, there are way more deities in this series than I remembered.

That's a lot of deities!

I often wondered if the Wind fish and Levias are one in the same. There were similar thoughts on if the sealed grounds ultimately become OoT's Temple of Time and the resting place for the Master Sword and the Triforce (I noticed when Zelda mentioned she needed to go into a deep sleep, a similar alter found to the North Palace in Zelda 2. Had she not been encased in Amber and actually did fall asleep, perhaps it could have been another branch towards Zelda 2 in which Zelda/Hylia was never awakened, and so forgotten throughout the ages.

I always figured the Wind Fish and Levias (and Oshus) were of the same 'race.' There are way too many reality-bending, flying whales in the Zelda universe for it to be a coincidence. Simiarly, Jabu-Jabu and Jabun.

Hylia's/Sealed Temple becoming the Temple of Time makes sense, but it also kind of doesn't line up neatly. Either way, the Gate of Time having some sort of influence in TP, sending Link back in time makes a lot of sense now that I think about it. The temple might be in ruins by then, but no one said it couldn't have residual power.



Tag - "No trolling on my watch!"

The maps in Skyward Sword and Twilight Princess line up almost perfectly. This means that Skyward Sword's Sealed Temple must be the same as Twilight Princess's Temple of Time. Ocarina of Time screwes everything up again, because here the Temple of Time is located in Castle Town (as opposed to the forest in TP) and it's relative location to major landmarks like Lake Hylia and Death Mountain (which, logically has to be in the exact same spot in every game, unless Zelda spans tens of millions of years) is much more to the north.

Some say they just moved Castle Town and Hyrule Castle to the north and all Temples of Time are the same (SS>OoT>TP). Personally I find that hard to believe, the Castle Town in TP is obviously a further developed version of the OoT Castle Town. It's layout is the same, the fountain in the centre, the position of the castle. More importantly, it's position to Death Mountain is the exactly the same, and the field in front of it is even shaped the same. SS and TP's Temples of Time are indeed the same, but OoT's must be another, that for some reason got demolished in between the two. Again, this is not waterproof, as there would be no in-universe reason why to do this.

With the time issues, there are so much vague things in Zelda, that you wonder if the people at Nintendo do this on purpose to make everyone 'theorize', or that they just can't tell stories.

fordy said:

That's a lot of deities!

I often wondered if the Wind fish and Levias are one in the same. There were similar thoughts on if the sealed grounds ultimately become OoT's Temple of Time and the resting place for the Master Sword and the Triforce (I noticed when Zelda mentioned she needed to go into a deep sleep, a similar alter found to the North Palace in Zelda 2. Had she not been encased in Amber and actually did fall asleep, perhaps it could have been another branch towards Zelda 2 in which Zelda/Hylia was never awakened, and so forgotten throughout the ages.

I would have excused the encased in Amber thing, if Zelda were to remain asleep after SS due to creative license, or the 'story-got-screwed-after-millenia' argument. For a second there, I thought this was going to happen, but sadly, no. They should have kept Zelda in SS asleep somehow, in AoL it is said (in the manual anyway) all Zelda's are called Zelda because the very first Zelda was put to sleep for all eternity. SS is supposed to be the first game, and the opportunity was there. It would have been perfect!



fordy said:
S.Peelman said:
fordy said:

Link is still in posession of the Triforce at that stage. Perhaps the Triforce limits one wish per person? (considering how the Links from the 3 Zelda games who wish on the Triforce are different incarnates of the Hero), though you'd have to assume that the Link to the Past Link made all of his wishes as one big wish to return Hyrule back to a peaceful state imagined in his mind.

In Wind Waker and A Link to the Past, I believe the Triforce splits again after one has done a succesful wish. Which indeed means only one wish per person, unless you'd find it again. Not 100% sure though, I'm going off memory here.

*youtubing all game endings now...*

At least I know it's different in Ocarina, when Ganondorf makes his wish, it is not granted because he is not 'pure of heart'. The Triforce splits and he is only left with 'Power'.

To add to my previous post, what happens when the Triforce splits? I'm guessing it wouldn't just stay on the ground somewhere or anything, that they might return to some designated area. It would explain why it's kept split in Skyward sword and Link is forced to retrieve each piece.

However, Adventure of Link's story explained that the Triforce remained as a whole until the Triforce of Courage was taken and hidden in the Grand Palace because of the fear of it's absolute power. It would be hard to imagine that it remained together for so long and not one wish was made to it. Also, Ganondorf made a wish in the storyline to Link to the Past, which turned the Golden Land into the Dark World, yet it remained intact by the end of the game.

From what I recall, the Triforce of Courage was missing in both Zelda 1 and Zelda 2 (until, obviously, the end).  I believe the Triforce of Courage was lost for millenia, and that only the Triforce of Wisdom and Triforce of Power were in the king's posession.  Only a wish with the full triforce could undo the spell the sorcerer cast on Zelda.

Also, what's up with the minions of Ganon needing Link's blood to revive him?  I think that aspect should be explored more.

Also also, old Zelda games were a lot darker than new ones.  Zelda 2 would get a T rating at the very least if it were faithfully remade, if not an M.



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Crono141 said:
fordy said:
S.Peelman said:
fordy said:

Link is still in posession of the Triforce at that stage. Perhaps the Triforce limits one wish per person? (considering how the Links from the 3 Zelda games who wish on the Triforce are different incarnates of the Hero), though you'd have to assume that the Link to the Past Link made all of his wishes as one big wish to return Hyrule back to a peaceful state imagined in his mind.

In Wind Waker and A Link to the Past, I believe the Triforce splits again after one has done a succesful wish. Which indeed means only one wish per person, unless you'd find it again. Not 100% sure though, I'm going off memory here.

*youtubing all game endings now...*

At least I know it's different in Ocarina, when Ganondorf makes his wish, it is not granted because he is not 'pure of heart'. The Triforce splits and he is only left with 'Power'.

To add to my previous post, what happens when the Triforce splits? I'm guessing it wouldn't just stay on the ground somewhere or anything, that they might return to some designated area. It would explain why it's kept split in Skyward sword and Link is forced to retrieve each piece.

However, Adventure of Link's story explained that the Triforce remained as a whole until the Triforce of Courage was taken and hidden in the Grand Palace because of the fear of it's absolute power. It would be hard to imagine that it remained together for so long and not one wish was made to it. Also, Ganondorf made a wish in the storyline to Link to the Past, which turned the Golden Land into the Dark World, yet it remained intact by the end of the game.

From what I recall, the Triforce of Courage was missing in both Zelda 1 and Zelda 2 (until, obviously, the end).  I believe the Triforce of Courage was lost for millenia, and that only the Triforce of Wisdom and Triforce of Power were in the king's posession.  Only a wish with the full triforce could undo the spell the sorcerer cast on Zelda.

Also, what's up with the minions of Ganon needing Link's blood to revive him?  I think that aspect should be explored more.

Also also, old Zelda games were a lot darker than new ones.  Zelda 2 would get a T rating at the very least if it were faithfully remade, if not an M.


The Triforce of Courage was placed in the Great palace a long time ago, when the king feared any abuse of power. The instruction manual for Adventure of Link explained it pretty well. Zelda knew about the location of the Triforce of Courage, but when she refused to tell the location to her brother, a sorcerer that worked for the prince cast a sleeping spell on her.

I think it was to just add drama to the ending. Like that Friday the 13th game: "You're dead....your friends are dead!" but it could really be made into another game in the series later on, perhaps the grave of the old hero is ransacked, or one of the heirs are sacrificed to bring about Ganon's revival.