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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Skyward Sword story inconsistencies (SPOILERS!)

fordy said:
F0X said:
The Zelda timeline is not even an actual timeline to begin with. It's really a Zelda multiverse in which Nintendo's writers can get away with anything and everything.


It's semi-timeline based. There ARE some connections (Zelda 2 is definitely based on the aftermath of Zelda 1, and all of the Cel shaded, toon based Zeldas seem to be related), but you're right. Plenty of inconsistencies, which is why lots tend to justify it based on splitting the timeline in Ocarina of Time.


If I'm following the Official Zelda Timeline correctly, Nintendo is invoking the many-worlds interpretation, in which every choice results in a seperate, branching universe being made. Link dies in Ocarina of Time, setting up A Link to the Past? That's a new branch universe. Plot inconsistency? Oh, just say it's a branch universe or something. This is the only explaination I can gather for the continuity gaps and errors in the series, and the best way for the Zelda series to continue doing Miyamoto-knows-what.

100% Official Nintendo-approved Timeline: http://zelda.wikia.com/wiki/Timeline

Before the Nintendo timeline, I would've been happy with "eh, split timelines and what-not".



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fordy said:
...

...

And by the way, the King sounds even more evil than Ganondorf in that scene. Surely he could have just purged Hyrule of evil and let the water subside...

He knew he was living in a doomed timeline for Hyrule. It wasn't 'meant to be' restored, I think.

The official timeline is really stupid. Letting the player fill in the gaps himself is part of the Zelda's rich worldbuilding. Or at least rich worldbuilding prior to 2006.



F0X said:
fordy said:
F0X said:
The Zelda timeline is not even an actual timeline to begin with. It's really a Zelda multiverse in which Nintendo's writers can get away with anything and everything.


It's semi-timeline based. There ARE some connections (Zelda 2 is definitely based on the aftermath of Zelda 1, and all of the Cel shaded, toon based Zeldas seem to be related), but you're right. Plenty of inconsistencies, which is why lots tend to justify it based on splitting the timeline in Ocarina of Time.


If I'm following the Official Zelda Timeline correctly, Nintendo is invoking the many-worlds interpretation, in which every choice results in a seperate, branching universe being made. Link dies in Ocarina of Time, setting up A Link to the Past? That's a new branch universe. Plot inconsistency? Oh, just say it's a branch universe or something. This is the only explaination I can gather for the continuity gaps and errors in the series, and the best way for the Zelda series to continue doing Miyamoto-knows-what.

100% Official Nintendo-approved Timeline: http://zelda.wikia.com/wiki/Timeline

Before the Nintendo timeline, I would've been happy with "eh, split timelines and what-not".

At one point not even Miyamoto got it correct, but it might have been that he was questioned on the spot. He put Link to the Past at the end of the timeline.

However, the Triforce thing was not timeline based. It's role remained pretty consistent throughout the entire series. Perhaps the ultimate power of the gods isn't as unlimited as previous games made it out to be....



Since the game is almost a year old, it's been a while since I played it, but didn't Link make his wish before Ghirahim took Zelda to the past? That would mean Link's wish was too soon, Ghirahim was smart enough to wait a while to see what happens, or Link should have thought it through a little more and rephrased his wish in the first place .

On the other thing, all the games refer to the same Gods, or actually, Goddesses. In Ocarina of Time and in Twilight Princess, they are mentioned as being the creators of the world and the Triforce was left as a side-effect from them leaving the world again. Since a timeframe for how old the world is is never given, they are always the 'old gods', no matter when the game is set. Some games mentioned different gods though (Majora's Mask and Skyward Sword), so it is implied that there exists some kind of hierarchy like in Greek mythology.

And I see others already mentioned the fourth time the full Triforce was used, so that's okay .

Good questions though!

F0X said:
The Zelda timeline is not even an actual timeline to begin with. It's really a Zelda multiverse in which Nintendo's writers can get away with anything and everything.

Recently, a timeline was sort of made canon because of it's inclusion in the 'Hyrule Historia' book, which is an official Nintendo release. This basically also confirmes all games occur in the same universe, over a span of many millenia.

You are right that the timeline is not an actual literal telling of history, like in say Star Wars, however. The book mentions a sort of clause. All stories in the games are 'Legends', like the titles say, which means they have been passed down for like thousends of generations and because stories change over time, details can differ between games. For example, to Wind Waker, something like Ocarina of Time happened. To NES Zelda (the original), something like A Link to the Past happened. And so on. The splitting in OoT occurs because of supernatural means, the way the timeline splits from OoT to ALttP is still a matter of debate though as it is not explicitely said in the book. Most have interpreted it as 'Link dies', of which I'm not a fan off, that way you could have a million timelines.

So yes, Nintendo writers can get away with anything .



Soleron said:
fordy said:
...

...

And by the way, the King sounds even more evil than Ganondorf in that scene. Surely he could have just purged Hyrule of evil and let the water subside...

He knew he was living in a doomed timeline for Hyrule. It wasn't 'meant to be' restored, I think.

The official timeline is really stupid. Letting the player fill in the gaps himself is part of the Zelda's rich worldbuilding. Or at least rich worldbuilding prior to 2006.

I see it in a similar universe to Star Wars. There have been a lot of novels made based in different eras of the Star Wars universe, and they usually get the fans to attempt to explain where they fit into the timeline in their own representation.

I wouldn't say Skyward Sword's story was bad because of this. In fact, I can see another potential story based in the past where the godess Hylia imprisons Demise. It might give some insight into how Demise got such power much like how Ocarina of Time told the story of the point where Ganondorf stole the Triforce of Power.



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S.Peelman said:

Since the game is almost a year old, it's been a while since I played it, but didn't Link make his wish before Ghirahim took Zelda to the past? That would mean Link's wish was too soon, Ghirahim was smart enough to wait a while to see what happens, or Link should have thought it through a little more and rephrased his wish in the first place .

On the other thing, all the games refer to the same Gods, or actually, Goddesses. In Ocarina of Time and in Twilight Princess, they are mentioned as being the creators of the world and the Triforce was left as a side-effect from them leaving the world again. Since a timeframe for how old the world is is never given, they are always the 'old gods', no matter when the game is set. Some games mentioned different gods though (Majora's Mask and Skyward Sword), so it is implied that there exists some kind of hierarchy like in Greek mythology.

F0X said:
The Zelda timeline is not even an actual timeline to begin with. It's really a Zelda multiverse in which Nintendo's writers can get away with anything and everything.

Recently, a timeline was sort of made canon because of it's inclusion in the 'Hyrule Historia' book, which is an official Nintendo release. This basically also confirmes all games occur in the same universe, over a span of many millenia.

You are right that the timeline is not an actual literal telling of history, like in say Star Wars, however. The book mentions a sort of clause. All stories in the games are 'Legends', like the titles say, which means they have been passed down for like thousends of generations and because stories change over time, details can differ between games. For example, to Wind Waker, something like Ocarina of Time happened. To NES Zelda (the original), something like A Link to the Past happened. And so on.

So yes, Nintendo writers can get away with anything .


Link is still in posession of the Triforce at that stage. Perhaps the Triforce limits one wish per person? (considering how the Links from the 3 Zelda games who wish on the Triforce are different incarnates of the Hero), though you'd have to assume that the Link to the Past Link made all of his wishes as one big wish to return Hyrule back to a peaceful state imagined in his mind.



Perhaps the game series should be retitled to "The Legends of Zelda" (I hear some people already pronounce it this way)...



fordy said:
Soleron said:
fordy said:
...

...

And by the way, the King sounds even more evil than Ganondorf in that scene. Surely he could have just purged Hyrule of evil and let the water subside...

He knew he was living in a doomed timeline for Hyrule. It wasn't 'meant to be' restored, I think.

The official timeline is really stupid. Letting the player fill in the gaps himself is part of the Zelda's rich worldbuilding. Or at least rich worldbuilding prior to 2006.

I see it in a similar universe to Star Wars. There have been a lot of novels made based in different eras of the Star Wars universe, and they usually get the fans to attempt to explain where they fit into the timeline in their own representation.

I wouldn't say Skyward Sword's story was bad because of this. In fact, I can see another potential story based in the past where the godess Hylia imprisons Demise. It might give some insight into how Demise got such power much like how Ocarina of Time told the story of the point where Ganondorf stole the Triforce of Power.

Star Wars Expanded Universe is a bad example. They are rather meticulous about maintaining continuity (at least until the prequels came along and fucked a few things up. Like the foundation of the Republic being at 25,000 BBY, but then in episode II Palpatine mentions the republic that stood for a thousand years, and so in comes the New Sith Wars and the Ruusan Reformation to reset the clock on that).



Monster Hunter: pissing me off since 2010.

fordy said:

Link is still in posession of the Triforce at that stage. Perhaps the Triforce limits one wish per person? (considering how the Links from the 3 Zelda games who wish on the Triforce are different incarnates of the Hero), though you'd have to assume that the Link to the Past Link made all of his wishes as one big wish to return Hyrule back to a peaceful state imagined in his mind.

In Wind Waker and A Link to the Past, I believe the Triforce splits again after one has done a succesful wish. Which indeed means only one wish per person, unless you'd find it again. Not 100% sure though, I'm going off memory here.

*youtubing all game endings now...*

At least I know it's different in Ocarina, when Ganondorf makes his wish, it is not granted because he is not 'pure of heart'. The Triforce splits and he is only left with 'Power'.



S.Peelman said:
F0X said:
The Zelda timeline is not even an actual timeline to begin with. It's really a Zelda multiverse in which Nintendo's writers can get away with anything and everything.

Recently, a timeline was sort of made canon because of it's inclusion in the 'Hyrule Historia' book, which is an official Nintendo release. This basically also confirmes all games occur in the same universe, over a span of many millenia.

You are right that the timeline is not an actual literal telling of history, like in say Star Wars, however. The book mentions a sort of clause. All stories in the games are 'Legends', like the titles say, which means they have been passed down for like thousends of generations and because stories change over time, details can differ between games. For example, to Wind Waker, something like Ocarina of Time happened. To NES Zelda (the original), something like A Link to the Past happened. And so on. The splitting in OoT occurs because of supernatural means, the way the timeline splits from OoT to ALttP is still a matter of debate though as it is not explicitely said in the book. Most have interpreted it as 'Link dies', of which I'm not a fan off, that way you could have a million timelines.

So yes, Nintendo writers can get away with anything .


Unfortunately, believeing that they exist in the same universe also means a giant gap or inconsistency in continuity. Remember the part in Ocarina of Time in which Link failed and Hyrule wasn't saved? I didn't. Because it didn't happen. The split timeline thing happened. That's perfectly acceptable. But since Link didn't fail in OoT's storyline, there's a plot inconsistency.

Unless, of course, the Zelda timeline is a multiverse. In that case, anything is possible. You could get a Game Over in Ocarina of Time and, oh, there's a branch universe created in which A Link to the Past takes place. If I could fix my problem with embedding videos, I have one that explains this idea rather well...

...nope. Okay, here's a link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i1TSpfPFNlE



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