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Forums - Microsoft - Microsoft calls Xbox subscription service “pivotal” to its business, hints at inclusion with next-gen

There are already payment plans for consoles. They're called monthly credit card bills. The interest should match the extra you'd pay for the subscription in the end. But of course if you get a 0% card then it's cheaper, and it ends up being the exact same payment plan. Just cheaper. And it's cheaper.



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Adinnieken said:
SvennoJ said:
Having the option is find but what's worrying is that it can easily lead to justify higher console prices next gen. Some people already stated they would be fine with that.
Buy the next gen console for only 149,- and a 4 year contract of 17,99 a month for the base model, 5 year contract for the pro. Or 699,-, 799,- straight up buy.
Plus if they have you paying a monthly fee, it's only 1 small step a way from easily adding extra paid services on top.

The title is the worrying part, "pivotal"
"Microsoft calls Xbox subscription service “pivotal” to its business, hints at inclusion with next-gen, it will one day be extended to the international consumer."

I hate my cable provider for this business model, but it seems I'm stuck with it. I cancelled my mobile phone, sick of all the plan bullshit. I was fine with how consoles operated until now, please don't ruin it and go the cable / phone provider way.

All they needed to do was not use pivotal, now I'm worried.

I think it's pivotal in that with the next Xbox Microsoft will be able to reach a broader audience in the financial spectrum by means of offering a console via a susidized payment plan.  The subsidized method won't benefit Microsoft on newer hardware.  If they're selling hardware at a loss, then offering it to consumers for 9% over the retail cost won't make them more money.  It just would save them from losing money.  Until the hardware breaks even, subsidization is a significant risk.

They're not going to stop offering a console at retail.  They'll still do that simply because they'll lose less money, especially early in the cycle.  However, later in the cycle subsidization benefits Microsoft because they're better able to reach a broader audience.

If for instance Microsoft can sell the next Xbox for $400 to a regular consumer, and that regular consumer is willing to pay additional for Xbox LIVE, great.  They fit the normal retail model.  They have the choice of hardware and they have the choice of whether to sign-up for Xbox LIVE Gold or not.  They have all the choices.  Those who can't afford the $400 will be be offered a subsidized console price with a required service life for Xbox LIVE at an additional subscription price.  Their options are limited, but the benefit is that they're able to obtain the console at a lower price, they're just locked into Xbox LIVE Gold for a period of years.

I don't think it's going to alter the retail model at all.  Microsoft has a target price, regardless of the hardware.  They've already mapped out the life of the product, made hedges as to how many units they'll sell and by when, and have their contracts aligned so that when they meet those goals they'll see price breaks.  As they are able to lower the price, they'll get their costs below the amount they're charging and from that point on begin to earn profit.

I'm and advocate of subsidization.  I actually proposed the idea to Microsoft through an unsolicited post during a Beta.  I thought it was a good idea then, and I think it's a good idea still.  Look at what it's done for the mobile phone market.  That industry would not have had the growth it had without subsidization.  Trust me, I know.  I was selling cellular phones in the early days of cellular phones and everything changed when we could down $99 phones.    

Funny you mention cellphones, since I got rid of those a long time ago when all these subsidized locked in contract plans became popular. It has not been beneficial to cable tv, I pay twice as much now as 10 years ago and need to buy or rent additional boxes to watch in more rooms instead of a simple amplifier for the whole house.
Here's hoping xbox doesn't go the same way, slowly increasing costs through subscription fees.

But I see your point that it can be a good thing too. If it really catches on then a larger audience should in theory lower overhead costs.



SvennoJ said:
Adinnieken said:
SvennoJ said:
Having the option is find but what's worrying is that it can easily lead to justify higher console prices next gen. Some people already stated they would be fine with that.
Buy the next gen console for only 149,- and a 4 year contract of 17,99 a month for the base model, 5 year contract for the pro. Or 699,-, 799,- straight up buy.
Plus if they have you paying a monthly fee, it's only 1 small step a way from easily adding extra paid services on top.

The title is the worrying part, "pivotal"
"Microsoft calls Xbox subscription service “pivotal” to its business, hints at inclusion with next-gen, it will one day be extended to the international consumer."

I hate my cable provider for this business model, but it seems I'm stuck with it. I cancelled my mobile phone, sick of all the plan bullshit. I was fine with how consoles operated until now, please don't ruin it and go the cable / phone provider way.

All they needed to do was not use pivotal, now I'm worried.

I think it's pivotal in that with the next Xbox Microsoft will be able to reach a broader audience in the financial spectrum by means of offering a console via a susidized payment plan.  The subsidized method won't benefit Microsoft on newer hardware.  If they're selling hardware at a loss, then offering it to consumers for 9% over the retail cost won't make them more money.  It just would save them from losing money.  Until the hardware breaks even, subsidization is a significant risk.

They're not going to stop offering a console at retail.  They'll still do that simply because they'll lose less money, especially early in the cycle.  However, later in the cycle subsidization benefits Microsoft because they're better able to reach a broader audience.

If for instance Microsoft can sell the next Xbox for $400 to a regular consumer, and that regular consumer is willing to pay additional for Xbox LIVE, great.  They fit the normal retail model.  They have the choice of hardware and they have the choice of whether to sign-up for Xbox LIVE Gold or not.  They have all the choices.  Those who can't afford the $400 will be be offered a subsidized console price with a required service life for Xbox LIVE at an additional subscription price.  Their options are limited, but the benefit is that they're able to obtain the console at a lower price, they're just locked into Xbox LIVE Gold for a period of years.

I don't think it's going to alter the retail model at all.  Microsoft has a target price, regardless of the hardware.  They've already mapped out the life of the product, made hedges as to how many units they'll sell and by when, and have their contracts aligned so that when they meet those goals they'll see price breaks.  As they are able to lower the price, they'll get their costs below the amount they're charging and from that point on begin to earn profit.

I'm and advocate of subsidization.  I actually proposed the idea to Microsoft through an unsolicited post during a Beta.  I thought it was a good idea then, and I think it's a good idea still.  Look at what it's done for the mobile phone market.  That industry would not have had the growth it had without subsidization.  Trust me, I know.  I was selling cellular phones in the early days of cellular phones and everything changed when we could down $99 phones.    

Funny you mention cellphones, since I got rid of those a long time ago when all these subsidized locked in contract plans became popular. It has not been beneficial to cable tv, I pay twice as much now as 10 years ago and need to buy or rent additional boxes to watch in more rooms instead of a simple amplifier for the whole house.
Here's hoping xbox doesn't go the same way, slowly increasing costs through subscription fees.

But I see your point that it can be a good thing too. If it really catches on then a larger audience should in theory lower overhead costs.

Most providers allowed you to do a non-locked contract, but the price of the phone was typically more than the locked contract.  Still, either was cheaper than buying the phone without a contract (unsubsidized).  Your cable went up because of the deregulation that went into effect in 1996.  Every promise of deregulation has proven to have an opposite or negative impact on the general public.  I can't cite one good benefit of deregulation.



NiKKoM said:

So if i'm reading the comments in this thread right MS rapes and murder your children with this subscription?

Don't forget that they also burn your house to the ground and sell you into slavery as a sex slave (which could be a good thing or a bad thing considering your viewpoint).

 

I'll add this to the thread:

If you don't like it, don't buy it. If you do like the Xbox but don't like this service plan, don't go for it and instead buy it the normal way. It's not like MS is holding everyone at gunpoint and making you get this service plan nor is it the only option you have when getting an Xbox.

Options are a good thing, not bad. Not to mention most people that would go for the service plan would most likely end up buying it on credit anyways since people that tend to finance things that they want and need will probably do it regardless of what contract plan Microsoft (or any other company) offers. The only real impact from offering this option is that sales of the next Xbox will probably be higher. The world won't burn into the ground any faster, people won't get into debt any higher (than if this plan wouldn't have been an option) and you'll sleep just fine at night because lets face it; most people don't actually care about other people that they don't know (it's mostly just an argument people will use as a basis to hate or disagree with something they don't like).



yo_john117 said:
NiKKoM said:

So if i'm reading the comments in this thread right MS rapes and murder your children with this subscription?

Don't forget that they also burn your house to the ground and sell you into slavery as a sex slave (which could be a good thing or a bad thing considering your viewpoint).

You're partly right
http://www.reghardware.com/2008/04/21/arkansas_xbox_360_fire/

No slavery yet, but they will send the swat team to your house
http://news.cnet.com/8301-17852_3-57377796-71/xbox-360-threat-leads-to-swat-team-raid/

Of course the ps3 makes all your information freely available to Russian mobsters and is used by Al quada to plot terror attacks
http://thegamershub.net/2012/03/the-sun-says-terrorists-use-call-of-duty-to-plot-attacks/



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SvennoJ said:
yo_john117 said:
NiKKoM said:

So if i'm reading the comments in this thread right MS rapes and murder your children with this subscription?

Don't forget that they also burn your house to the ground and sell you into slavery as a sex slave (which could be a good thing or a bad thing considering your viewpoint).

You're partly right
http://www.reghardware.com/2008/04/21/arkansas_xbox_360_fire/

No slavery yet, but they will send the swat team to your house
http://news.cnet.com/8301-17852_3-57377796-71/xbox-360-threat-leads-to-swat-team-raid/

Of course the ps3 makes all your information freely available to Russian mobsters and is used by Al quada to plot terror attacks
http://thegamershub.net/2012/03/the-sun-says-terrorists-use-call-of-duty-to-plot-attacks/

LOL this made my day

"This is a public service announcement for anyone playing Call of Duty online on their Xbox 360: if anyone interrupts your game and tells you they're going to hack your information and send a SWAT team to your house, they might actually be serious."



Chandler said:
Squilliam said:
Wow the thread has been a honey pot, 5 people banned?? Wow.


Yep, opinion against Microsofts practices = ban. Essentially, if you piss of high penis point members like kowenicki and BenVTrigger they get you banned.

 

 

"Saying the Xbox is the most successful console worldwide is straight up lying.

 

Also, games are now only on fifth position after movies, tv shows, sports and music. Microsoft repeatedly states that Xbox as a gaming console was just a trojan horse to get a foothold in the living room and they will abuse this now. I can't comprehend how people can call themselves gamers and still support this bullshit. Microsoft is burning this industry down just to get into the living room to compete with Apple TV. They don't give a shit about games or gamers."

 

 

This is what I was banned for and the reason was "blatant trolling/flaming"

Flamebait and trolling. Posts or signatures slamming a particular platform without basis - be it a specific console, macs, windows, or anything similar - will not be tolerated. This applies to specific games as well as consoles.

  • You always have the right to express your opinion, as long as it is relevant to the thread topic, and you do so in a civil manner, justifying what you say. If you want to discuss something other than the thread topic, make your own thread.
  • The forums are here for gamers of all persuasions, so unless you're in a thread specifically geared towards platform comparison/discussion, keep your anti-platform comments out of the thread. Note that there is a difference between having a reasonable argument in the correct thread and trolling.
  • Similarly, do not create threads, posts or signatures just to bait people of a specific fan group. Bait threads will be locked and you will be moderated for them. If you spend a lot of time making hit-and-run negative threads or posts about a specific platform you will also be moderated at the discretion of the moderators.
In the context of the thread, I don't think I missed the mark.
Edit: I've said similar things about Sony, and nothing happenend. Go figure.
Moderated,
-Mr Khan

I am sorry I guess that makes you #6



Tease.

sales2099 said:

I got a feeling that most of the hate from this deal is because

1. This will increase 360 sales and this upsets the Sony camp.

2. MS thought of this first and Sony didn't.

Why would people here condemn MS for giving an OPTION that they know they won't ever do? Why do they care that its taking advantage of debt prone families (which cell companies have done for years). Gamers are the new hosts to "Till Debt Do Us Part"? lol

Its simple: This will boost 360 sales, Live Gold subs, and not PS3. These debates almost always are rooted in lifetime sales.

This is not true at all. Its an evil smart idea, because you can put people into debt and profit off of the interest. I am saying as a person  who works in retail in this economy, that the mass majority of the people will not go for financing. It wont sway them if they cannot afford it. I used to work in a store that gave cash or finance options and the stuff was pretty expensive at times. Also, looking for people with good credit these days isnt very easy.



Its a great idea and is here to stay. You'll still be able to buy one without subscription so why worry.

Its threads like this that make me laugh when people say Microsoft get the least hate on this site.



S.T.A.G.E. said:
sales2099 said:

I got a feeling that most of the hate from this deal is because

1. This will increase 360 sales and this upsets the Sony camp.

2. MS thought of this first and Sony didn't.

Why would people here condemn MS for giving an OPTION that they know they won't ever do? Why do they care that its taking advantage of debt prone families (which cell companies have done for years). Gamers are the new hosts to "Till Debt Do Us Part"? lol

Its simple: This will boost 360 sales, Live Gold subs, and not PS3. These debates almost always are rooted in lifetime sales.

This is not true at all. Its an evil smart idea, because you can put people into debt and profit off of the interest. I am saying as a person  who works in retail in this economy, that the mass majority of the people will not go for financing. It wont sway them if they cannot afford it. I used to work in a store that gave cash or finance options and the stuff was pretty expensive at times. Also, looking for people with good credit these days isnt very easy.

You either dont buy a 360 or you buy one at full price. It is an option. Simple. As. That.

Therefore, this is a fan topic, a sales thread. I stand by my origional point.



Xbox: Best hardware, Game Pass best value, best BC, more 1st party genres and multiplayer titles.