I got a feeling that most of the hate from this deal is because

1. This will increase 360 sales and this upsets the Sony camp.

2. MS thought of this first and Sony didn't.

Why would people here condemn MS for giving an OPTION that they know they won't ever do? Why do they care that its taking advantage of debt prone families (which cell companies have done for years). Gamers are the new hosts to "Till Debt Do Us Part"? lol

Its simple: This will boost 360 sales, Live Gold subs, and not PS3. These debates almost always are rooted in lifetime sales.

Yep, opinion against Microsofts practices = ban. Essentially, if you piss of high penis point members like kowenicki and BenVTrigger they get you banned.

"Saying the Xbox is the most successful console worldwide is straight up lying.

Also, games are now only on fifth position after movies, tv shows, sports and music. Microsoft repeatedly states that Xbox as a gaming console was just a trojan horse to get a foothold in the living room and they will abuse this now. I can't comprehend how people can call themselves gamers and still support this bullshit. Microsoft is burning this industry down just to get into the living room to compete with Apple TV. They don't give a shit about games or gamers."

This is what I was banned for and the reason was "blatant trolling/flaming"

Flamebait and trolling. Posts or signatures slamming a particular platform without basis - be it a specific console, macs, windows, or anything similar - will not be tolerated. This applies to specific games as well as consoles.

• You always have the right to express your opinion, as long as it is relevant to the thread topic, and you do so in a civil manner, justifying what you say. If you want to discuss something other than the thread topic, make your own thread.
• The forums are here for gamers of all persuasions, so unless you're in a thread specifically geared towards platform comparison/discussion, keep your anti-platform comments out of the thread. Note that there is a difference between having a reasonable argument in the correct thread and trolling.
• Similarly, do not create threads, posts or signatures just to bait people of a specific fan group. Bait threads will be locked and you will be moderated for them. If you spend a lot of time making hit-and-run negative threads or posts about a specific platform you will also be moderated at the discretion of the moderators.

No, unwarranted hatred towards MS practices = ban

"I can't comprehend how people can call themselves gamers and still support this bullshit. Microsoft is burning this industry down just to get into the living room to compete with Apple TV. They don't give a shit about games or gamers."

Citing Forum rules, this was not civil, and very much NOT justified. Also this crossed the line between reasonable argument and outright trolling.Gamers play games. What else they do has no impact on that label. MS expanded this industry this entire gen, namely in the multiple SKU selling and Online network developement.Your last line is pure propaganda as MS needs gamers to stay relevant. They put out the games whether people like to acknowledge them or not.

Congrats, im labelling you as a Sony fan now.

The challenge is that you have to qualify for the credit card.  Not everyone qualifies for the credit card, and not everyone has enough liquid cash to purchase the console outright.  The payment plan requiest 1/3 the initial investment outlay at the expense of a higher per month cost.  For some people that higher per month cost is easier to afford.

There are a lot of deals that aren't always the best choice financially, car leases for example or worse trading in a car after three years of ownership.  Regardless there are some people who for them it works.

Having the option is find but what's worrying is that it can easily lead to justify higher console prices next gen. Some people already stated they would be fine with that.
Buy the next gen console for only 149,- and a 4 year contract of 17,99 a month for the base model, 5 year contract for the pro. Or 699,-, 799,- straight up buy.
Plus if they have you paying a monthly fee, it's only 1 small step a way from easily adding extra paid services on top.

The title is the worrying part, "pivotal"
"Microsoft calls Xbox subscription service “pivotal” to its business, hints at inclusion with next-gen, it will one day be extended to the international consumer."

I hate my cable provider for this business model, but it seems I'm stuck with it. I cancelled my mobile phone, sick of all the plan bullshit. I was fine with how consoles operated until now, please don't ruin it and go the cable / phone provider way.

All they needed to do was not use pivotal, now I'm worried.

Its easy: just buy the full price straight up. Its not too long ago that people faithfully bought a $599 launch console for a year before the prices dropped.But I doubt the full price will be above 499 IMO.

But for some people, financing is a realistic way to go.

Pretty much it.  And as always, problems with moderations should be sent to Axumblade.  (though i'm sure he's going to say the exact same thing.)

Currently the 360 is the most succesful console WW. Hes referring to the 360 being the number 1 selling in console at the close of 2011. Which Microsoft have told you it is on about 9 occassions now without any retract from Sony or Nintendo right in their faces to. I think if Microsoft were lying Sony would have said so or even Nintendo. Instead they looked right back at Microsoft and said nothing. Every major gaming event Microsoft as said this. Currently 360 is number 1.

So much hatred against MS in this thread.

Personally, I prefer Sony and Nintendo consoles . But I don't see Microsoft/Xbox as negative force for the industry, as many people seem to do here.

After all,  they have made huge contributions for MP on consoles.

I think it's pivotal in that with the next Xbox Microsoft will be able to reach a broader audience in the financial spectrum by means of offering a console via a susidized payment plan.  The subsidized method won't benefit Microsoft on newer hardware.  If they're selling hardware at a loss, then offering it to consumers for 9% over the retail cost won't make them more money.  It just would save them from losing money.  Until the hardware breaks even, subsidization is a significant risk.

They're not going to stop offering a console at retail.  They'll still do that simply because they'll lose less money, especially early in the cycle.  However, later in the cycle subsidization benefits Microsoft because they're better able to reach a broader audience.

If for instance Microsoft can sell the next Xbox for $400 to a regular consumer, and that regular consumer is willing to pay additional for Xbox LIVE, great.  They fit the normal retail model.  They have the choice of hardware and they have the choice of whether to sign-up for Xbox LIVE Gold or not.  They have all the choices.  Those who can't afford the $400 will be be offered a subsidized console price with a required service life for Xbox LIVE at an additional subscription price.  Their options are limited, but the benefit is that they're able to obtain the console at a lower price, they're just locked into Xbox LIVE Gold for a period of years.

I don't think it's going to alter the retail model at all.  Microsoft has a target price, regardless of the hardware.  They've already mapped out the life of the product, made hedges as to how many units they'll sell and by when, and have their contracts aligned so that when they meet those goals they'll see price breaks.  As they are able to lower the price, they'll get their costs below the amount they're charging and from that point on begin to earn profit.

I'm and advocate of subsidization.  I actually proposed the idea to Microsoft through an unsolicited post during a Beta.  I thought it was a good idea then, and I think it's a good idea still.  Look at what it's done for the mobile phone market.  That industry would not have had the growth it had without subsidization.  Trust me, I know.  I was selling cellular phones in the early days of cellular phones and everything changed when we could down $99 phones.