| S.T.A.G.E. said: Who cares about the Vita? |
Indeed.
lilbroex said:
Indeed. |
Turkish.
Fend off is a very strong term if you ask me, but that's how he's kicking arse and taking names. Seems like he got his mojo back. I just hope he doesn't end up losing it later on. That would be sad...
And proud member of the Mega Mario Movement!
S.T.A.G.E. said:
Sony also had a better relationship with third parties. Nintendo had some but nowhere near the amount they needed to be considered a viable option. |
I think Nintendo should've converted four late-gen N64 projects -- Perfect Dark, Conker's BFD, Star Wars: Battle for Naboo, and Zelda: Majora's Mask and transferred them over to launch the GameCube in 2000. Two of these games didn't run without the RAM Expansion pak anyway, and the N64 ... Nintendo did all they could for it, no shame letting the system go out with Banjo-Tooie, Paper Mario, etc.
I didn't mind the Cube design, but they should've ditched the purple as a primary color outside of Japan and made it a little more high tech looking.
Maybe that system wouldn't have beaten the PS2, but it probably would've been a very strong no.2 and would've gotten a fair bit of developer support in the long run because it was much easier to program for. And the XBox ... with the GCN having a full year head start .... would've been too far behind and likely would've fizzled out entirely.
teigaga said:
my concern isn't that the Wii U can't handle it, more the fact that Wii U dev kits have been n devlopers hands well over a year before any of these games were announced and yet none have been announced for the system. |
Nintendo seemed to try to keep as much as possible quiet regarding what would be on the Wii U. Even Black Ops 2 was hush, hush. If they are fairly straightforward to port, it should be seen then. It seems now the core of the Wii U's title announcements focus on what will be in the launch window, or the first year. Nintendo having a focus on selling the unique features of the Wii U, and also that it will get the top titles for it.
What if Sony and MS wrongfoot Ninty skipping 8th gen altogether?
| Alby_da_Wolf said: What if Sony and MS wrongfoot Ninty skipping 8th gen altogether? |
Nintendo ending up being only console on market at said next gen level? They win, and then come out a few years after the other consoles and dwarf those.
| Alby_da_Wolf said: What if Sony and MS wrongfoot Ninty skipping 8th gen altogether? |
Atari tried that.
The 7800 was 3rd Gen, the Jaguar was 5th. It didn't help them in the slightest and they fell out of the console business worse than Sega. They thought to outsmart Nintendo and Sega by releasing a 5th Gen console early. Unfortunately, nobody cared anymore because they took too long and the Saturn, the new Playstation and the N64 completely blew the Jaguar away.
If Microsoft and Sony would skip the 8th Gen and come out in a few years with a 9th Gen system, WiiU's successor would be around the corner again beating them in hardware capability. Unless they wait for such a long time, that WiiU's successor would be released before PS4 and XBox720. By then, chances are that like with Atari, the XBox and Playstation brands would almost be 'forgotten' to the regular people.
Long story short they probably would be caught in a never-ending loop of trailing behind Nintendo.
Granted, the PS3 and X360 are loads more succesfull than the 7800 ever was so the comparison is not exact.
|
noname2200 said: Are you positing that every 360 and PS3 sale was to the traditional market? Especially in light of the Kinect and Move? Far more importantly, you're assuming that The Market is exclusively made up folks who have already bought in, i.e. if you haven't purchased a gaming system you're never going to buy a gaming system. That's a fallacy that I'm attempting to address. It's a rare person who doesn't spend money on entertainment. The question the videogame industry should be asking, the question that Nintendo briefly asked, is "so why is it that the bulk of our customers fall in the same small section of the general public? And how do we break out of this insular rut?" I submit that the Wii and DS are excellent evidence that a market for videogames exists beyond the narrow band that has bought in during previous generations. I further submit that that market puts less emphasis on (expensive, resource-consuming) graphical output than it does on a wide variety of other factors. And I finally submit that a console that properly and continuously harnesses the values that the general public prefers in its entertainment will do at least as well as the DS, with the potential to do even greater. By contrast, even after attempting to devour the "new" market created by the Wii, the graphically-intensive, super-cutting-edge HD consoles are each petering out short of what even the outdated, gimmicky, SD Wii managed to do in a shorter timespan. That's what I'm getting at. There are obviously millions of people who drool over bleeding-edge tech. The internet is full of them. And there are extremely few, if any, people who would turn away from better graphics (assuming they don't have to pay for them!). But at the end of the day, the group that demands a console that costs its manufacturer around $1,000 per unit at launch is relatively small and, more importantly, unable to singularly maintain a healthy console. A first-party would be much better served focusing its resources on other fronts. |
We have the number of Kinects sold, and the number of Move homes. I believe it's 15 million for Kinect, and 2 million for move. In total, the xbox 360 sales are 68.8m - 15m -> 53.8m homes without kinect and the PS3 sales are 67m - 2m -> 65m homes without move. The combined sales amount to 118.8m. That is still roughly 5/4 of total Wii Sales (96.7m), that is without considering that probably some 10m Wii's were used for core typical red-market gaming content.
That was my initial gripe with your argument, and my argument is that Nintendo needs to consider that market.
Your initial post was this -> "The lesson I allude to isn't that superior graphics are an automatic failure. It's in the importance of superior graphics, or the large lack thereof."
Like I said, the N64 was lacking something basic, before one should consider graphics, and that was its media. With the Wii, it's much more clear that the culprit to losing the red ocean market was weaker graphical capabilities and in general weaker hardware specs. Mind you, a good counter-argument to this is the gamecube, which had everything right. However, the Nintendo brand power was already very damaged at that point in the home console marketspace, it was a hard sell for Nintendo. When the Wii came out, the focus on the blue-ocean strategy was a springboard for Nintendo to recapture the red ocean. Sadly it didn't happen, but the U is promising just that.
As for the rest of your argument, you simply cannot bundle the logic of the DS with the logic of the Wii, since the portable market functions very differently to the home console market. Also, your understimation of the HD market this gen is staggering, as I pointed out in my first para. Again, it's not about the one or the other. Nintendo's Wii/DS strategy works wonders for the blue ocean market, but it is not working for the red ocean. Also, better graphics does not always require expensive console. The proof was the gamecube. Sure the PS3 and 360 took it too far, but Nintendo could have offered a happy medium that would have secured the multi-plats early on. That didn't happen. The hope is that the Wii U can pick up where it's younger brother left off.
S.Peelman said:
Atari tried that. The 7800 was 3rd Gen, the Jaguar was 5th. It didn't help them in the slightest and they fell out of the console business worse than Sega. They thought to outsmart Nintendo and Sega by releasing a 5th Gen console early. Unfortunately, nobody cared anymore because they took too long and the Saturn, the new Playstation and the N64 completely blew the Jaguar away. If Microsoft and Sony would skip the 8th Gen and come out in a few years with a 9th Gen system, WiiU's successor would be around the corner again beating them in hardware capability. Unless they wait for such a long time, that WiiU's successor would be released before PS4 and XBox720. By then, chances are that like with Atari, the XBox and Playstation brands would almost be 'forgotten' to the regular people. Long story short they probably would be caught in a never-ending loop of trailing behind Nintendo. Granted, the PS3 and X360 are loads more succesfull than the 7800 ever was so the comparison is not exact. |
Yep, it was a very daring suggestion, and I think they could try it only if Wii U won't sell too well, while at the same time PS3 and XB360 sales won't drop too much. Also, they'd be able to do it only together, neither of them would accept to be left the only one sticking to the previous gen.
Another thing against them would be little RAM, with PC already offering as much RAM as they want, and Ninty offering more than 1GB user space memory, at last, devs would be willing to use it to make more ambitious games, and old gen would be cut off.
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