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Forums - Nintendo - PSP vs 3DS specs rd1

lilbroex on 28 September 2012
curl-6 said:
lilbroex said:
curl-6 said:
lilbroex said:

The 3DS having modern shaders simply makes the application of shaders a lot "easier" and subsequently a lot cheaper, but it can't reach the level of shading that you see in games like the Rogue Leader, Other M, Darkside Chronicles, and Overlord Dark Legend.

I'll give you Rogue, but I'm not convinced the other 3 are doing as much shading as Revelations.


"as much" is relative statement and and Revelation is visually doing more than it is technially. Its only using "2" texture effect(normal mapping and global lighting) and its mapping them globally over a everything. DE Extraction pulled off more than that(EMBM, Bloom, and HDR at the same time).

The enemies aren't even destructable. Also, if you look at the character and enemy modals up close, they're actual polygon counts are really low. Revelations is using what I call the Halo effect.

Where was the EMBM in Extraction? The Necromorphs and the characters had a similar effect but I'm pretty sure it was specular mapping.

Other M has bumpmapped characters, but so does Revelations. Overlord had a lot of the same shadowing effects but lacked the texturing effects, and Darkside Chronicles seemed to simpler texture effects, (Specularity and EMBM as opposed to normal mapping) and lower amounts of surface mapping too.

That's simple EMBM?

 

Simply saying something has an effect doesn't mean as much without stating how well it was used.

Also, its, not just what texture effects, but the scale, depth, diversity, polygon count and drawing distance as well.

 

 

Much better self shadowing.

 

 

Most of what little detail there is in Revelations is drawn on. The polygon detail is REALLY low and there is little diversity in the designs whether it be enemy or environment. It reuses the exact same few textures repeatedly with normal mapping applied globally over everything to cover the lack of real detail in the entities.



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oni-link on 28 September 2012
lilbroex said:
curl-6 said:
lilbroex said:
curl-6 said:
lilbroex said:

The 3DS having modern shaders simply makes the application of shaders a lot "easier" and subsequently a lot cheaper, but it can't reach the level of shading that you see in games like the Rogue Leader, Other M, Darkside Chronicles, and Overlord Dark Legend.

I'll give you Rogue, but I'm not convinced the other 3 are doing as much shading as Revelations.


"as much" is relative statement and and Revelation is visually doing more than it is technially. Its only using "2" texture effect(normal mapping and global lighting) and its mapping them globally over a everything. DE Extraction pulled off more than that(EMBM, Bloom, and HDR at the same time).

The enemies aren't even destructable. Also, if you look at the character and enemy modals up close, they're actual polygon counts are really low. Revelations is using what I call the Halo effect.

Where was the EMBM in Extraction? The Necromorphs and the characters had a similar effect but I'm pretty sure it was specular mapping.

Other M has bumpmapped characters, but so does Revelations. Overlord had a lot of the same shadowing effects but lacked the texturing effects, and Darkside Chronicles seemed to simpler texture effects, (Specularity and EMBM as opposed to normal mapping) and lower amounts of surface mapping too.

That's simple EMBM?

 

Simply saying something has an effect doesn't mean as much without stating how well it was used.

Also, its, not just what texture effects, but the scale, depth, diversity, polygon count and drawing distance as well.

 

 

Much better self shadowing.

 

 

Most of what little detail there is in Revelations is drawn on. The polygon detail is REALLY low and there is little diversity in the designs whether it be enemy or environment. It reuses the exact same few textures repeatedly with normal mapping applied globally over everything to cover the lack of real detail in the entities.

Wow those screenshots look awesome!!!  How come I can't get my Wii to do that and they look a little blurry when I play them on my actual LED TV?



lilbroex on 28 September 2012
oni-link said:
lilbroex said:
curl-6 said:
lilbroex said:
curl-6 said:
lilbroex said:

The 3DS having modern shaders simply makes the application of shaders a lot "easier" and subsequently a lot cheaper, but it can't reach the level of shading that you see in games like the Rogue Leader, Other M, Darkside Chronicles, and Overlord Dark Legend.

I'll give you Rogue, but I'm not convinced the other 3 are doing as much shading as Revelations.


"as much" is relative statement and and Revelation is visually doing more than it is technially. Its only using "2" texture effect(normal mapping and global lighting) and its mapping them globally over a everything. DE Extraction pulled off more than that(EMBM, Bloom, and HDR at the same time).

The enemies aren't even destructable. Also, if you look at the character and enemy modals up close, they're actual polygon counts are really low. Revelations is using what I call the Halo effect.

Where was the EMBM in Extraction? The Necromorphs and the characters had a similar effect but I'm pretty sure it was specular mapping.

Other M has bumpmapped characters, but so does Revelations. Overlord had a lot of the same shadowing effects but lacked the texturing effects, and Darkside Chronicles seemed to simpler texture effects, (Specularity and EMBM as opposed to normal mapping) and lower amounts of surface mapping too.

That's simple EMBM?

 

 

Simply saying something has an effect doesn't mean as much without stating how well it was used.

Also, its, not just what texture effects, but the scale, depth, diversity, polygon count and drawing distance as well.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Much better self shadowing.

 

 

 

Most of what little detail there is in Revelations is drawn on. The polygon detail is REALLY low and there is little diversity in the designs whether it be enemy or environment. It reuses the exact same few textures repeatedly with normal mapping applied globally over everything to cover the lack of real detail in the entities.

Wow those screenshots look awesome!!!  How come I can't get my Wii to do that and they look a little blurry when I play them on my actual LED TV?


Dunno. Maybe you need a better T.V. It looks exactly like that on mine albeit with a little bit more aliasing. Maybe your Wii is wearing out?

 



oni-link on 28 September 2012
oni-link said:
VMEfinn said:
The definitive response.

- The 3DS has a option for bigger game storage than the PSP (Vita is Equal), but the UMD on the PSP is much less expensive, and makes it easier for programmers to make larger games without worrying about cost.

- The 3DS GPU in certain ways (not all) is much more powerful than the PSP, but no where as powerful as the Quad Core GPU in the Vita. That being said, it is not as powerful as the GPU Game Cube, nor is the GPU in the Vita as powerful as the GPU's in the PS3 or 360 as some are saying. On a small screen the GPU's like in the Vita look great, but put on a full size screen they are very poor. To put it into perspective the Vita pushes twice as many pixels as the 3DS, but about half the amount of the 360 or PS3 and thats at a measly 720p resolution.

- The CPU's is another not so simple area to compare as many processors these days are made to digital signal processing. Either way the 3DS is a lot more powerful than the PSP. However the Arm 11 based dual core in the 3DS is no where near as fast as the Arm 7 based (Strangely 7 is the upper end CPU at ARM) quad core cpu in the Vita. In perspective the 3DS CPU pushes about the same amount of mips as the Game Cube, and the Vita pushes about 2/3rds that of the 360 tripple core cpu. In reality though the AMD CPU's are a lightweight general purpose CPU, where as the Power PC based CPU's in the GC, 360 and PS3 are all designed for the systems and have much more brute force. On top of that the PP chips have multi pipeline hardware threading, bigger and faster data and address busses, big data cashes and more. Even then not all MIPS are equal, so for brute force processing the PP's are much more powerful. If you take into account the digital signal processing side of things then the 360 and PS3 would whoop the Vita's CPU's ass.

An easy way to sum the differences between the 3DS and Vita is to look for NVidia Tegra games on Youtube. The 3Ds is about equal to a Tegra 1, yet the Vita is essentially the same as a Tegra 3.

If I was to make a scale of consoles total processing power from PS1 (1%) to PS3 (100%) it would go like this.

PS1 > 1%
PSP > 8%
3DS > 18%
PS2 > 20%
Xbox > 24%
GC > 28%
Wii > 34%
Vita > 40%
360 > 95%
PS3 > 100%

Now the handheld that would have been cool in my opinion would have been a PSP 2 with PSP 2 hardware, a Tegra 2 CPU/GPU, Dual Analogue sticks, mini Blu-Ray drive and 960x480 touch screen. That way Sony could have simply converted a massive amount of PS2 games for the system. Yet it would have had the capability to run Android / IOS style games too. It would have sold very well and cost less to produce than the Vita. Did I say it would have had a zillion games too. Hmm


Great job on this!!!!  The question is not whether the 3DS is superior to the PSP (clearly it already is) but how much more superior it is!!!  I say that it is at least 2x-2.5x more powerful than the PSP.  In terms of gauging where the 3DS is compared to the GCN or Wii, I would say that it falls somewhere in between (powerful enough to satisfy my portable needs IMHO).  The arguement whether the system is hindered by the 3D is pretty much nullfied by the fact that PICA200 is meant to dispaly 3D images; hence partly the reason for why Nintendo chose them. This makes the system optimized for 3D use; and the only weakness I find compared to the Wii might be in it's dual-core ARM11 processor which is running  uderclocked anywhere between 266MHz or 350MHz; http://www.arm.com/products/processors/classic/arm11/index.php  .  Overall the system should be pushing anywhere between 15.3-22mil poly/s (PICA200 is running 266MHz) with most effects turned on.  This is a little bit better numbers than the GCN http://web.archive.org/web/20080222190252/http://www.segatech.com/gamecube/overview/index.html (it's at 12-15mil poly/s); but behind the Wii which should be pushing 24mil-30mil poly/s.  The thing the 3DS has an advantage over the Wii, is a more modern GPU that is able to handle better textures and shaders. 

 





d21lewis on 28 September 2012
oni-link said:
lilbroex said:
curl-6 said:
lilbroex said:
curl-6 said:
lilbroex said:

The 3DS having modern shaders simply makes the application of shaders a lot "easier" and subsequently a lot cheaper, but it can't reach the level of shading that you see in games like the Rogue Leader, Other M, Darkside Chronicles, and Overlord Dark Legend.

I'll give you Rogue, but I'm not convinced the other 3 are doing as much shading as Revelations.


"as much" is relative statement and and Revelation is visually doing more than it is technially. Its only using "2" texture effect(normal mapping and global lighting) and its mapping them globally over a everything. DE Extraction pulled off more than that(EMBM, Bloom, and HDR at the same time).

The enemies aren't even destructable. Also, if you look at the character and enemy modals up close, they're actual polygon counts are really low. Revelations is using what I call the Halo effect.

Where was the EMBM in Extraction? The Necromorphs and the characters had a similar effect but I'm pretty sure it was specular mapping.

Other M has bumpmapped characters, but so does Revelations. Overlord had a lot of the same shadowing effects but lacked the texturing effects, and Darkside Chronicles seemed to simpler texture effects, (Specularity and EMBM as opposed to normal mapping) and lower amounts of surface mapping too.

That's simple EMBM?

Simply saying something has an effect doesn't mean as much without stating how well it was used.

Also, its, not just what texture effects, but the scale, depth, diversity, polygon count and drawing distance as well.

Most of what little detail there is in Revelations is drawn on. The polygon detail is REALLY low and there is little diversity in the designs whether it be enemy or environment. It reuses the exact same few textures repeatedly with normal mapping applied globally over everything to cover the lack of real detail in the entities.

Wow those screenshots look awesome!!!  How come I can't get my Wii to do that and they look a little blurry when I play them on my actual LED TV?

Play the Wii on a TV that's 20 inches or less.  It looks pretty awesome, then.  I'm playing The Last Story right now on my daughter's little TV and it looks like it belongs on an HD console--but when I first got it and fired it up on my big LED, it looked like garbage.



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curl-6 on 29 September 2012
lilbroex said:
curl-6 said:
lilbroex said:
curl-6 said:
lilbroex said:

The 3DS having modern shaders simply makes the application of shaders a lot "easier" and subsequently a lot cheaper, but it can't reach the level of shading that you see in games like the Rogue Leader, Other M, Darkside Chronicles, and Overlord Dark Legend.

I'll give you Rogue, but I'm not convinced the other 3 are doing as much shading as Revelations.


"as much" is relative statement and and Revelation is visually doing more than it is technially. Its only using "2" texture effect(normal mapping and global lighting) and its mapping them globally over a everything. DE Extraction pulled off more than that(EMBM, Bloom, and HDR at the same time).

The enemies aren't even destructable. Also, if you look at the character and enemy modals up close, they're actual polygon counts are really low. Revelations is using what I call the Halo effect.

Where was the EMBM in Extraction? The Necromorphs and the characters had a similar effect but I'm pretty sure it was specular mapping.

Other M has bumpmapped characters, but so does Revelations. Overlord had a lot of the same shadowing effects but lacked the texturing effects, and Darkside Chronicles seemed to simpler texture effects, (Specularity and EMBM as opposed to normal mapping) and lower amounts of surface mapping too.

That's simple EMBM?

 

Simply saying something has an effect doesn't mean as much without stating how well it was used.

Also, its, not just what texture effects, but the scale, depth, diversity, polygon count and drawing distance as well.

 

 

Much better self shadowing.

 

 

Most of what little detail there is in Revelations is drawn on. The polygon detail is REALLY low and there is little diversity in the designs whether it be enemy or environment. It reuses the exact same few textures repeatedly with normal mapping applied globally over everything to cover the lack of real detail in the entities.

I was talking about Dead Space Extraction, not Darkside Chronicles. (And speaking of Darkside, EMBM isn't as complex as the normal mapping in Revelations)

I agree with you that Wii > 3DS power wise, but I don't think there's a Wii game that has better shading than Revelations. There are some that pull off more types of effects, but there are generally simpler effects and in smaller quantities.



Teriol on 29 September 2012
Paul said:
I find it incredible that sony can release a portable that is almost as powerful as the 360 when Nintendo has trouble beating the 360 with it's next generation console.

some people here just makes me laugth, keep dreaming keep dreaming :) wii U = x360 lol lolololol



34 years playing games.

 

lilbroex on 29 September 2012
curl-6 said:
lilbroex said:
curl-6 said:
lilbroex said:
curl-6 said:
lilbroex said:

The 3DS having modern shaders simply makes the application of shaders a lot "easier" and subsequently a lot cheaper, but it can't reach the level of shading that you see in games like the Rogue Leader, Other M, Darkside Chronicles, and Overlord Dark Legend.

I'll give you Rogue, but I'm not convinced the other 3 are doing as much shading as Revelations.


"as much" is relative statement and and Revelation is visually doing more than it is technially. Its only using "2" texture effect(normal mapping and global lighting) and its mapping them globally over a everything. DE Extraction pulled off more than that(EMBM, Bloom, and HDR at the same time).

The enemies aren't even destructable. Also, if you look at the character and enemy modals up close, they're actual polygon counts are really low. Revelations is using what I call the Halo effect.

Where was the EMBM in Extraction? The Necromorphs and the characters had a similar effect but I'm pretty sure it was specular mapping.

Other M has bumpmapped characters, but so does Revelations. Overlord had a lot of the same shadowing effects but lacked the texturing effects, and Darkside Chronicles seemed to simpler texture effects, (Specularity and EMBM as opposed to normal mapping) and lower amounts of surface mapping too.

That's simple EMBM?

 

 

Simply saying something has an effect doesn't mean as much without stating how well it was used.

Also, its, not just what texture effects, but the scale, depth, diversity, polygon count and drawing distance as well.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Much better self shadowing.

 

 

 

Most of what little detail there is in Revelations is drawn on. The polygon detail is REALLY low and there is little diversity in the designs whether it be enemy or environment. It reuses the exact same few textures repeatedly with normal mapping applied globally over everything to cover the lack of real detail in the entities.

I was talking about Dead Space Extraction, not Darkside Chronicles. (And speaking of Darkside, EMBM isn't as complex as the normal mapping in Revelations)

I agree with you that Wii > 3DS power wise, but I don't think there's a Wii game that has better shading than Revelations. There are some that pull off more types of effects, but there are generally simpler effects and in smaller quantities.


This isn't EMBM.

http://image.gamespotcdn.net/gamespot/images/2009/196/reviews/958780_20090716_screen003.jpg

Dynamic lighitng from different sources with different intensities casting accurate shadows. That is no small effect.

http://image.gamespotcdn.net/gamespot/images/2009/152/958780_20090602_screen002.jpg

http://image.gamespotcdn.net/gamespot/images/2009/265/958780_20090923_screen006.jpg

Fur rendering with more accurate lighting and shadows.

http://image.gamespotcdn.net/gamespot/images/2009/152/958780_20090602_screen002.jpg

REALLY high level bump mapping at well is water effect.

http://image.gamespotcdn.net/gamespot/images/2009/117/958780_20090428_screen011.jpg

 

Thats the point I was making. And Mario Galaxy 2 would like to say hello(used quite a bit of normal mapping as modders found out). Secondly, there is nothing really that complex about normal mapping.

The reason you don't see normal mapping in most Wii games isn't because its hard for the system to do, its  because its difficult to program with the TEV. I just showed you a game that outdid Revelations.

You are still omitting all of the other factors I pointed out and at the end of the day, Rebel Strike still did all of what you are pointing out in Revelatins plus lots more and that was for the GC.

I didn't just state my point. I backed it up with visual proof.

 

 

Revelations wasn't very detailed at all.



d21lewis on 29 September 2012
lilbroex said:
curl-6 said:
lilbroex said:
curl-6 said:
lilbroex said:
curl-6 said:
lilbroex said:

The 3DS having modern shaders simply makes the application of shaders a lot "easier" and subsequently a lot cheaper, but it can't reach the level of shading that you see in games like the Rogue Leader, Other M, Darkside Chronicles, and Overlord Dark Legend.

I'll give you Rogue, but I'm not convinced the other 3 are doing as much shading as Revelations.


"as much" is relative statement and and Revelation is visually doing more than it is technially. Its only using "2" texture effect(normal mapping and global lighting) and its mapping them globally over a everything. DE Extraction pulled off more than that(EMBM, Bloom, and HDR at the same time).

The enemies aren't even destructable. Also, if you look at the character and enemy modals up close, they're actual polygon counts are really low. Revelations is using what I call the Halo effect.

Where was the EMBM in Extraction? The Necromorphs and the characters had a similar effect but I'm pretty sure it was specular mapping.

Other M has bumpmapped characters, but so does Revelations. Overlord had a lot of the same shadowing effects but lacked the texturing effects, and Darkside Chronicles seemed to simpler texture effects, (Specularity and EMBM as opposed to normal mapping) and lower amounts of surface mapping too.

That's simple EMBM?

 

 

Simply saying something has an effect doesn't mean as much without stating how well it was used.

Also, its, not just what texture effects, but the scale, depth, diversity, polygon count and drawing distance as well.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Much better self shadowing.

 

 

 

Most of what little detail there is in Revelations is drawn on. The polygon detail is REALLY low and there is little diversity in the designs whether it be enemy or environment. It reuses the exact same few textures repeatedly with normal mapping applied globally over everything to cover the lack of real detail in the entities.

I was talking about Dead Space Extraction, not Darkside Chronicles. (And speaking of Darkside, EMBM isn't as complex as the normal mapping in Revelations)

I agree with you that Wii > 3DS power wise, but I don't think there's a Wii game that has better shading than Revelations. There are some that pull off more types of effects, but there are generally simpler effects and in smaller quantities.


This isn't EMBM. Its normal mapping.

http://image.gamespotcdn.net/gamespot/images/2009/196/reviews/958780_20090716_screen003.jpg

Dynamic lighitng from different sources with different intensities casting accurate shadows. That is no small effect.

http://image.gamespotcdn.net/gamespot/images/2009/152/958780_20090602_screen002.jpg

http://image.gamespotcdn.net/gamespot/images/2009/265/958780_20090923_screen006.jpg

Fur rendering with more accurate lighting and shadows.

http://image.gamespotcdn.net/gamespot/images/2009/152/958780_20090602_screen002.jpg

REALLY high level bump mapping at well is water effect.

http://image.gamespotcdn.net/gamespot/images/2009/117/958780_20090428_screen011.jpg

 

Thats the point I was making. And Mario Galaxy 2 would like to say hello(used quite a bit of normal mapping as modders found out). Secondly, there is nothing really that complex about normal mapping.

The reason you don't see normal mapping in most Wii games isn't because its hard for the system to do, its  because its difficult to program with the TEV. I just showed you a game that outdid Revelations.

You are still omitting all of the other factors I pointed out and at the end of the day, Rebel Strike still did all of what you are pointing out in Revelatins plus lots more and that was for the GC.

 

Revelations wasn't very detailed at all.

Rebel Strike was 95% space ships and explosions, though.  Humans looked pretty bad.  I know this is a comparison of power but whenever somebody brings up Rebel Strike in these things, it feels like comparing Forza to Uncharted.  Yeah, Forza looks great because it's just rendering cars.  A good looking X-Wing Fighter in a sparse environment seems like it would be easy to render.  We should find a comparison that is more "apples to apples" like RE4 vs RE Revelations or Rogue Squadron vs Star Fox 64 (Poor example.  Sorry.) or something

 

*edit*  I think I quoted the wrong post.  :(



lilbroex on 29 September 2012
d21lewis said:

Rebel Strike was 95% space ships and explosions, though.  Humans looked pretty bad.  I know this is a comparison of power but whenever somebody brings up Rebel Strike in these things, it feels like comparing Forza to Uncharted.  Yeah, Forza looks great because it's just rendering cars.  A good looking X-Wing Fighter in a sparse environment seems like it would be easy to render.  We should find a comparison that is more "apples to apples" like RE4 vs RE Revelations or Rogue Squadron vs Star Fox 64 (Poor example.  Sorry.) or something

No, it wasn't. "All" of the human character in Rebel Strike were normal mapped as well as inside combat environment.

http://199.101.98.242/media/shots/66396-StarWars_Rebel_Strike-7.jpg

http://cdn3.spong.com/screen-shot/s/t/starwarsro98563/_-Rogue-Squadron-III-Rebel-Strike-_.jpg

It used accurate selfshadowing and dynamics lighting. Bloom lighitng. Desructive environments. Extremely detailed modals.

Outside environments were bump mapped.

http://www.google.com/url?source=imglanding&ct=img&q=http://www.freewebs.com/guessscreen/You%20can%20not%20guess%20me.jpg&sa=X&ei=9_RmUPjRHJSQ8wSF5oGQDQ&ved=0CAoQ8wc4kgE&usg=AFQjCNEai_ZNWabPlN42I1kyfiNvMuahGQ

And a bunch of other effects I can't remember the names of.

Also,after all of that, it still holds the sixth gen record for the most polygons used in an actually game at one time with all of the aboe mentioned effects running at 60 FPS.

Though I'm not getting into argument about Rebel Strike. It has been dissected enough times out there and its achievement are easy to look up.