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Forums - Politics Discussion - Suck it Libya! Death valley is now the hottest place on the planet! By the way America basically just went to war again......Will it never end?

iFlow on 16 September 2012
Kasz216 said:
iFlow said:
I've read some article online (from an Australian report) that said that the only way to stop the recurrence of these events would be to constrain the Freedom of Speech. Why can't we just throw the movie director in prison, fine him, or just punish him (not physically). Punishing everyone for a ignorant Florida Pastor, a Film director, and a large group of Muslims is pretty stupid. Isn't very American.


Actually what they should do... is realase about 3dozen vidoes like that a week until certain muslim's learn to chill the hell out and get used to it.

Just like what happens with Christianity.

Exactly. They need to learn to tolerate it. I tolerated the hate I recieve for being an American and a Christian. 



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SamuelRSmith on 16 September 2012



the2real4mafol on 16 September 2012
Kasz216 said:
iFlow said:
I've read some article online (from an Australian report) that said that the only way to stop the recurrence of these events would be to constrain the Freedom of Speech. Why can't we just throw the movie director in prison, fine him, or just punish him (not physically). Punishing everyone for a ignorant Florida Pastor, a Film director, and a large group of Muslims is pretty stupid. Isn't very American.


Actually what they should do... is realase about 3dozen vidoes like that a week until certain muslim's learn to chill the hell out and get used to it.

Just like what happens with Christianity.

wow really, link me to one please. But anyway, i think the media overthere and here made a big deal out of that "film", which made the reaction bigger than it should of been. As someone, he does not practice any religion, i find all this, fucking hilarious! no offence to anyone



Xbox One, PS4 and Switch (+ Many Retro Consoles)

'When the people are being beaten with a stick, they are not much happier if it is called the people's stick'- Mikhail Bakunin

Prediction: Switch will sell better than Wii U Lifetime Sales by Jan 1st 2018

babuks on 17 September 2012
SamuelRSmith said:
Sam3o said:
On topic, I have two things to say...

Firstly, this freedom of speech excuse is getting lame. It's being used to justify people saying or doing (movies, cartoons, etc...) whatever they want, having nearly ABSOLUTE FREEDOM in doing so. People have freedom to drive their cars as they wish. However, if someone were to abuse it by going through red lights, overspeeding, driving recklessly, causing an accident, or endangering the lives of others, then that someone will be fined, have his driving license taken away, or jailed. One could imagine the chaos that would befall any transportation system if people had absolute freedom in driving.

Likewise, depicting or accusing someone to be a rapist, a pedophile, or a murderer, especially wrongly or without any basis, will definately hurt that someones beloved ones (parents, brothers, sisters, relatives, friends, etc) and you will most likely be sued for by them for that! How would someone feel if their mother was depicted as a prostitue, or their father as a rapist when they're not? How would billions of muslims feel if their beloved prophet and #1 role model was depicted badly in the mass media? Many seem to confuse between that and criticism.

Secondly, 2 wrongs don't make a right! Responding to someone that punched you by shooting and killing him may get you a life sentence. Taking vengence by destroying public property, rioting, and killing will not fix anything. It will only convice the other side that these "Muslims" are violent, intolerent, and uncivilized and they will insist on making more cartoons, more movies, and more depictions, and their products will look believable. Both sides will be stuck in a never ending cycle of hate and intolerence.

It's quite sad because when the prophet and his followers were met with violence, torture, intolerence, exile, betrayal, killings, and several battles, and then he had the chance to take revenge and get even he instead chose mercy and forgiveness. It would be quite useful if many Muslims these days actually took him as a role model.


You don't have the right to drive recklessly, that's where you're wrong. Property rights trump all, and the owner of the roads sets the rules. Don't follow them, and you infringe property rights, and face the according punishments.

Actually, I do have the right to say all those things about your mother and father... so long as I'm not in your property (and you've told me not to), or I'm in somebody else's property who has also told me not to. What you're essentially referring to are the defamation laws that babuks argued earlier. These are an infringement on rights. Here's why:

Your basis for these laws is that you don't want to harm your reputation, or the reputation of your mother, or whoever. What is a reputation? Do you own your reputation? No. A reputation is held in the thoughts of the community, they are about you, but they are not yours. Ergo, you have no right to control them.

In a world without defamation laws, people's reputations will be even more secure, why? Because anybody could say any old shit. I could call your father a rapist until the cows came home... nobody's going to believe me unless I have substantial proof; because they would hear shit like this all the time.

You are still arguing like a child, amazing!

If you have a right, you don't face punishment for doing that. You have to be clear with your definitions first. I don't know whether you say, I have right to kill people but I face punishments for that.

Just woke up from bed and this pop on my head (may be just for you): If you are really free to say anything, what the HELL the moderators doing in this forum?



SamuelRSmith on 17 September 2012
babuks said:

You are still arguing like a child, amazing!

If you have a right, you don't face punishment for doing that. You have to be clear with your definitions first. I don't know whether you say, I have right to kill people but I face punishments for that.

Just woke up from bed and this pop on my head (may be just for you): If you are really free to say anything, what the HELL the moderators doing in this forum?


Are you not reading what I'm saying? Property rights trump all. ioi is the property holder of gamrConnect, what he says, goes.

I never said you have the right to kill people?

You have no comprehension, whatsoever, of what a right is, or what freedom is.



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babuks on 17 September 2012
SamuelRSmith said:
babuks said:

You are still arguing like a child, amazing!

If you have a right, you don't face punishment for doing that. You have to be clear with your definitions first. I don't know whether you say, I have right to kill people but I face punishments for that.

Just woke up from bed and this pop on my head (may be just for you): If you are really free to say anything, what the HELL the moderators doing in this forum?


Are you not reading what I'm saying? Property rights trump all. ioi is the property holder of gamrConnect, what he says, goes.

I never said you have the right to kill people?

You have no comprehension, whatsoever, of what a right is, or what freedom is.


I read about 'rights' and 'freedom' when I graduated in Law. 

So according to your explanation, you can apply your right on whatever you own, so the filmmaker own the Prophet or Islam? 



SamuelRSmith on 17 September 2012
babuks said:


I read about 'rights' and 'freedom' when I graduated in Law. 

So according to your explanation, you can apply your right on whatever you own, so the filmmaker own the Prophet or Islam? 


You should have gone to a better school, bro.

Where did my logic result in that conclusion?



babuks on 17 September 2012

I don't want to take hassle of quoting you from different posts, just look at your property owning cause you shown. You said the owner of the road sets the rules (thus restrict your freedom), ioi owns the forum (thus restricts your freedom). Yet you don't believe in defamation laws etc etc.

I strongly believe, in order to make the society peaceful, everyone should be careful what to say to others and respectful to others, at least that is the teaching of Islam.

What Islam teaches about saying bad things about others:
It is called 'Geebat' to say bad thing about a person who is not present. The companions of the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) asked, 'What if that bad thing is present in that person, will we still be doing sin?' Prophet said, 'Yes, and if that bad thing is not present in that person, you are imposing lie on him and that is a bigger sin.'

May Allah make our mind respectful to all. Thanks SamuelRSmith, this is the end of debate with you.



the2real4mafol on 17 September 2012

i was told as a kid, "if you have nothing good to say, don't say anything" Maybe that moron movie director should take
to heart, next time he thinks of making such a shit and offensive film



Xbox One, PS4 and Switch (+ Many Retro Consoles)

'When the people are being beaten with a stick, they are not much happier if it is called the people's stick'- Mikhail Bakunin

Prediction: Switch will sell better than Wii U Lifetime Sales by Jan 1st 2018

Sam3o on 18 September 2012
spurgeonryan said:
Sam3o said:
spurgeonryan said:

I do not live in Death Valley so I do not care. I was in Iraq for a year. I know how hot things get on this planet! Dust storms do not help one bit! :P

LOL! the title implys otherwise :P

On topic, I have two things to say...

Firstly, this freedom of speech excuse is getting lame. It's being used to justify people saying or doing (movies, cartoons, etc...) whatever they want, having nearly ABSOLUTE FREEDOM in doing so. People have freedom to drive their cars as they wish. However, if someone were to abuse it by going through red lights, overspeeding, driving recklessly, causing an accident, or endangering the lives of others, then that someone will be fined, have his driving license taken away, or jailed. One could imagine the chaos that would befall any transportation system if people had absolute freedom in driving.

Likewise, depicting or accusing someone to be a rapist, a pedophile, or a murderer, especially wrongly or without any basis, will definately hurt that someones beloved ones (parents, brothers, sisters, relatives, friends, etc) and you will most likely be sued for by them for that! How would someone feel if their mother was depicted as a prostitue, or their father as a rapist when they're not? How would billions of muslims feel if their beloved prophet and #1 role model was depicted badly in the mass media? Many seem to confuse between that and criticism.

Secondly, 2 wrongs don't make a right! Responding to someone that punched you by shooting and killing him may get you a life sentence. Taking vengence by destroying public property, rioting, and killing will not fix anything. It will only convice the other side that these "Muslims" are violent, intolerent, and uncivilized and they will insist on making more cartoons, more movies, and more depictions, and their products will look believable. Both sides will be stuck in a never ending cycle of hate and intolerence.

It's quite sad because when the prophet and his followers were met with violence, torture, intolerence, exile, betrayal, killings, and several battles, and then he had the chance to take revenge and get even he instead chose mercy and forgiveness. It would be quite useful if many Muslims these days actually took him as a role model.


@ bold true.

 

 

With your freedom of speech thing are you talking about the Recent movie that was made that has started protest all over the world?

Yes, I was reffering to the movie, but also the previous cartoons, and that "Burn The Quran Day" thing, etc...

btw, welcome back to the Chartz