So basically it is best for Nintendo to keep on doing what they are doing.  Third parties just need to step up.  There are Nintendo produced games that I would argue that they are hardcore (such as Smash, F-Zero, Fire Emblem).  There are even casual games they make which people play hardcore (Animal Crossing, some people put 1,000+ of hours into the game).  However, it seems like 3rd parties usually make hardcore games that teenagers/young adults perfer more.  Even on the Wii if the third party spent enough time and decent marketing it was proven to be a success (Monster Hunter 3 selling over 2m while the first two MH games didn't sell over 1m on the PS2).   The problem with the Wii was most third party just did a crappy port if anything.  Hopefully, third party companies will put more effort into the Wii U.  It seems like it might happen but we will find out.  Oh and using the whole casual/hardcore terms is pretty tough for me to do considering I never liked those terms but those are terms that are set in stone now...

Well, that's because Nintendo and Rare were different companies back then as well. As far as I know all that matters is that Nintendo is not the company who makes 16/18 plus games.

Going back to my original point -- Geist is probably as close to first party as it gets for M-rated Nintendo games as it worked with n-Space on it and owns the rights.

For those who mentioned Killer Instinct, it is a T-rated fighting game -- just like SSBB.

Mike from Morgantown

So true, and Nintendo loves immature!

Going to go hardcore today and play a really mature title on my DS this afternoon, Travel Coach Europe.

I could be wrong but I thought that the "dispute" over Conker was that Nintendo of America didn't want to publish CBFD as a Nintendo game because they knew that people would think that a mascot based platformer published by Nintendo was appropriate for children even if it had a Mature rating.

From my limited understanding, at the time Nintendo of Japan determined what games were made and Nintendo of America decided what games would be released and how they would be marketed in the West. Throughout the SNES and N64 days Nintendo of America censored many Japanese games to promote a more family friendly image; and even prevented many games from ever being released in the west.

They obviously didn't have an issue with it because they even had a TV commercial where a stripper-esque model was simulating a sex act on Conker, and that was paid for by Nintendo.

Nintendo was going in a different direction in those days actually, both Perfect Dark and CBFD were allowed to be M-rated. They were greenlighting games like Riqa (Tomb Raider clone that never came out) and Eternal Darkness too.

Retro Studios was supposed to be a big studio that provided 4-5 teams that gave them edgier content too (Raven Blade, an NFL football game, a racing sim, etc.).

This was largely stemmed from the massive success of GoldenEye on the N64 I think.

Sadly, I think Nintendo made a massive mistake in listening to Rare and not renewing the James Bond license. Sure it's nice to listen to your developer, but you don't throw away a formula that has just sold you 6+ million copies or whatever it was.

Also basically what happened was Retro fell apart and Nintendo in Japan was forced to restructure it. Minoru Arakawa and Howard Lincoln (the heads of NOA at that time) were retiring.

After all that happened NOA was never the same again. Under Iwata, Nintendo sold Rare, cut ties to Factor 5/Silicon Knights/Left Field/etc. and retuned Retro into a smaller studio that worked on basically Metroid/Donkey Kong only.

I like Iwata but he definitely pushed Nintendo away from the more Western-centric/hardcore direction they were heading in. Nintendo definitely has not really pursued projects like Conker's Bad Fur Day since and sadly since it was released so late on the N64 it was doomed to bomb. Would've done better as a GameCube launch title I think.