Eh, I'd settle for a decent plot with at least one interesting twist. Or maybe if Nintendo takes the time to develop Peach's character... nah, that will never happen. A shame since Peach is really awesome in the RPGs.

On the subject of Galaxy, the storybook aspect was a step in the right direction, and in 3D Land the idea of Peach sneaking messages to Mario throught his adventure had some charm and (squandered) potential to it. I wonder what EAD Tokyo is cooking up for that already-confirmed Wii U 3D Mario game...

That wasn't the point of the Lost Winds picture.

Will you tell me the artistic design wasn't soo clear it pierces your eyes? Don't cherry-pick Rol.

Yes, his face is the size of his body, but that's not the point.

The colors are subdued, much like Tarzan actually. Yes, his face is charicaturized, but that doesn't define kiddy. He is well drawn and offers much more detail than Mario does, even in 3D.

This isn't about me, it isn't about trolling. It's about me expressing my opinion and seeing if there is anything objectively true in the sentiments I express, as subjective as they may be. In truth, this is not a troll thread and I don't see why you would think that.

Yes, I've already made a few threads revolving around this topic, but that's because it interests me.

The only time where Pie wasted his time is where he was thinking in the lines you're pushing him in. I then sought to teach him to look deeper into the topic so as to actually debate with me. You're pulling him back in the wrong direction "mama".

I've tried to define it time and time again within the thread.

I tried to contrast it with what I considered substance. The ambiance of a game like Journey (which I haven't played but looked it up), worlds to discover, different environmental cues that tell a story (wind, sand, dust, background noises and curious sounds).

I also tried to explain to JWein that the sounds in certain tunes and certain parts of tracks in Galaxy used "childlike" sound samples that resemble crib toys. It's that kind of kiddy I'm talking about.

I mentioned how playskool is for kids, and absolutely not for adults, in contrast with Disney timeless classics that appeal to both audiences.

In case you were wondering, playskool is this:

You're complaining about a lack of a definition, but I've gone over that countless times, explaining that my failure in expressing this properly and putting it into words is largely due to my lackings in art and understanding art, though I understand it intuitively, I've never really discussed it formally. That's why I made this thread, to talk about it.

Does that clear it up?

@Rol. I also mentioned balance in colors, moods, voice acting. Things that stand out too strong and lack nuance. Too bright, too high-pitched, not detailed enough, too generic, not enough inspiration from curious real-world panoramas and sights.

As you can see I'm struggling to put this into words, but that's the point of the thread. I'm waiting for people who have an opinion and insight on the matter to help me express what I see and feel, and help me bring out what maybe other people may be sensing without being able to put it into words.

I dont agree with the kiddy thing at least not completely. Mario is a very unique character. If we look at mario, he is 30+, chubby-mustached plumber (I dont see anything kiddy there) that saves a pricess in a very lively world, a very odd combination if you ask me.

That doesn't strike my as exclusively kid-related. I suppose you're going for something along the lines of "intentionally dumbed down and presented in ways that are skewed towards a younger demographic, and unappreciatable for most older players". If so, all you need is indisputable examples of aspects that are hard to appreciate from an adult view, of which the narrative might be the easiest one for you to use as an example. It may be difficult to provide objective examples in other aspects, but at the least you would've made your most important point - there's at least one area that isn't as great at the rest of the game, and it would be pleasant if Nintendo would actually put forth some effort in that regard.

I think Nintendo could make Mario less childish if they would give him a little boner, not that much obvious, but slightly pronounced.

How did I miss this post? Hmm, good, now you're starting to see what I mean.

Yes, that "Van gogh" style level is a great example of Nintendo moving in the right direction. It's still not enough because it's only in the backdrop, but it's a great start. Yep, I noticed that one too.

It's not just in the backdrop, check the warp-pipes.

Did you see Pie's post? It may not be a pipe dream after all. It's only for so long that you can treat your massively selling title with a less than stellar art direction.

@Mr Khan. And the warp pipes of course, I noticed but failed to mention. Good point. I was mostly contrasting with Mario and the coins.