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Forums - Politics Discussion - Has the Muslim Brotherhood deeply infiltrated the U.S government?

richardhutnik said:

So, Glen Beck is also trying to spin this to make Michelle Bachmann look ad?  This is from Glenn's site:

http://www.glennbeck.com/2012/04/26/michele-bachmann-on-rumors-of-war-iii/

Bachmann is spending is 25-30 hours a week researching into infiltration of Muslim Brotherhood into the U.S government?  These are her words?  Is she trying to spin things herself?

This is a repeat of what was said before in here. This is what Bachmann apparently believes, and the PDF points to a documentary she was telling the governemt to check out, she considers accurate.  So, I post a link to the letter, to show that she wants people to check out the documentary on the Muslim Brotherhood.  That is what this is about.  And it goes back to the original question: Has the Muslim Brotherhood infiltrated the U.S government?  Has it?  Answer yes or no.  What I am getting is you don't believe this, and are trying to argue that Bachmann, Glenn Beck, and others I have pointed to, don't believe this, but what is being said is having things taken out of context.

So, which is it?  Do you believe the U.S government has been infiltrated by this, or do you not believe it, and believe that there is spin going on to make Bachmann and others look completely nuts?

Glenn Beck isn't trying to spin Michelle Bachman to look bad... he's trying to spin Michelle Bachman to look "Good" in his eyes... because Glen Beck is batshit insane. 

When conspiracy theroists for example  cut and paste expert testimony to 9/11 to misrepresent what they say, they are doing it to "expose the truth" in their eyes.  Not make the person seem uncredible.

Or another is that the KKK might paint the same nonracist law as racist that he ACLU would.

 

Do I believe the US government has been "infilitrated" by the Muslim Brotherhood?

No.  Though I do believe there are people in the muslim Brotherhood in the government or at least people with fairly strong ties to it. (The aide gives us a clear example.)

Do I think Michele Bachmann is worried that the Muslim Broterhood might be more interconected then our intellegence things  Yes. 

Do I think she thinks this is a definite certainty, or even a probability?  Not particularly. 

 

Do I think she thinks it deserves a double check?   Yes.

Do I think that's "coo coo bannanna's"?   Not particularly.

Often times people will be in multiple groups, so some people part of the "Peaceful" wings of the muslim brotherhood no doubt have connections to other more extreme versions.  So to wonder if some groups are using it as a cover or the whole thing is a cover wouldn't be unprecedented.  Look at charties that end up being nothing but funnels to terrorists.

Do I think Glenn Beck has believed since shortly after 9/11 that a global world war 3 will brew among the western christian nations and muslim nations and that this world conflict will be the armageddon that will usher in the end of days and would spin anything he could to make it look definite this is happening?

Yes.  Since, outside of the "spin everything" part that was more or less his exact setiment on his radio show before he got on TV.



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Kasz216 said:

Glenn Beck isn't trying to spin Michelle Bachman to look bad... he's trying to spin Michelle Bachman to look "Good" in his eyes... because Glen Beck is batshit insane. 

When conspiracy theroists for example  cut and paste expert testimony to 9/11 to misrepresent what they say, they are doing it to "expose the truth" in their eyes.  Not make the person seem uncredible.

Or another is that the KKK might paint the same nonracist law as racist that he ACLU would.

 

Would you say part of what is going on now is Bachmann trying to pander to a Glenn Beck base of support for political reasons?  When you do that, it looks like you are going way off the deep end?



richardhutnik said:
Kasz216 said:

Glenn Beck isn't trying to spin Michelle Bachman to look bad... he's trying to spin Michelle Bachman to look "Good" in his eyes... because Glen Beck is batshit insane. 

When conspiracy theroists for example  cut and paste expert testimony to 9/11 to misrepresent what they say, they are doing it to "expose the truth" in their eyes.  Not make the person seem uncredible.

Or another is that the KKK might paint the same nonracist law as racist that he ACLU would.

 

Would you say part of what is going on now is Bachmann trying to pander to a Glenn Beck base of support for political reasons?  When you do that, it looks like you are going way off the deep end?


Pander is a bit strong...  I just imagine that her comments were taken out of context... but to go into "Out of context" spotting 101. lets go into some parts of the raticle... my comments in bold.

 

“I watched every second of the special you did last night,” the Congresswoman told Glenn. “It was spellbinding.”      That's not really talking about the likelyhood of it... just that it kept your attention and was convincing.

Congresswoman Bachmann sits on the intelligence committee, and told Glenn’s listeners that she can confirm every word from Rumors of War III was accurate. “It’s absolutely profound,” she said.     Note what she actually says here.  This sense doesn't remotely suggest "every word" is true... that is their words.  It's not even a sentence really, who knowss what qualfiers came before or after it.  Assuming she said "It was spellbind and Profound"   that would mean... it really kept your attention while you were watching it, was convincing and was intense/indepth.   I'd call Michael Moore documentries that, and I know most of what he says is made up.  (Though I do think she see's at least part of Beck's work as possible)

“I personally spend twenty-five to thirty hours every week just dealing with this problem. I think this is the number one issue facing our country right now. People have no idea how far, how deep, how wide the Muslim Brotherhood has penetrated the upper echelons here in the United States"  I can believe she's looking in to it that hard... when she says nobody knows "how far, deep and wide," though it sounds to me that she actually means she doesn't know. as.. she wants to find this out, hence why she's researching it.  If she did know... why would she have to spend 30 hours  week researching?

 

After that it all seems fairly normal.  She's worried about Islamic reasons for terroism to be taken out of training manuals because she think's they're reasons for terroism etc.   She's generally afraid we're going to lose western culture... which in general is a popular sentiment in Europe well beyond just the crazy racist national parties.   See like... France for example.  (Not something i'd agree with, but I wouldn't be signing someone up for the insane Asylum just because they believed it.



zuvuyeay said:
justinian said:
zuvuyeay said:
Zappykins said:
No not really. I would be more concerned with The Mormons and the Roman Catholic Church. Especially the later one's pull with so many of the supreme court justices.

I really wish people would just leave Politics and Religion separately. It's like mixing eggs sunny side up and chocolate rice crispies. They just don't play nice together.


just out of interest how do you separate politics from relgion when say for example the muslim brotherhood are the govts in power in egypt etc or wherever they have just got in,i can't remember now

That's the question. Religion and politics combined is how that part of the world is governed. If that's what the people want and vote for then leave them to it. I do however see your point.

The thing is this system is still stuck in the past. Who is to say it wont work well again in the future with some key changes?

I am for different political systems over the world, not the "everything almost the same" political systems so many people seem to be after.

Let people choose what system they want and leave them to it. It's the dictating to others what is right and wrong for them that helps create so many global problems.

As for this story it just proves to be careful what you wish for.


i agree with you,let the people vote on what they want,i certainly don't want the uk,usa dictating policy like they have done/tried too in the past,i was just asking how they separate religion from politics,those forces will eventually rub up against each other the more wealthy/independant the population become its inevitable,however long it takes

i don't mind relgious institutions but i certainly wouldn't want to be ruled by relgious doctrine myself but like you say its for countries to work out for themselves,which i assume is what is happening in the middle east after military dictatorships break down,everything has its pros and cons

The irony is that in the 1950's Iran had a duly elected parliamentary democracy and the UK and US helped overthrow it to reinstate the monarchy of the Shah of Iran.  Why?  Because BP Oil had interests in Iran and the Iranian government was forcibly buying them up. 

Roughly 20 years later, the Shah was overthrown, democracy ended, Shia Muslims gained power, and installed a theocracy that we're dealing with today.

Anyone who says anything about the middle-east isn't about oil, is lying.  Everything about the middle-east is about oil.  If it isn't about oil then we aren't involved.  Why do you think Africa gets ignored so much?



Stupidity has deeply infiltrated the US government.



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Adinnieken said:
zuvuyeay said:
justinian said:
zuvuyeay said:
Zappykins said:
No not really. I would be more concerned with The Mormons and the Roman Catholic Church. Especially the later one's pull with so many of the supreme court justices.

I really wish people would just leave Politics and Religion separately. It's like mixing eggs sunny side up and chocolate rice crispies. They just don't play nice together.


just out of interest how do you separate politics from relgion when say for example the muslim brotherhood are the govts in power in egypt etc or wherever they have just got in,i can't remember now

That's the question. Religion and politics combined is how that part of the world is governed. If that's what the people want and vote for then leave them to it. I do however see your point.

The thing is this system is still stuck in the past. Who is to say it wont work well again in the future with some key changes?

I am for different political systems over the world, not the "everything almost the same" political systems so many people seem to be after.

Let people choose what system they want and leave them to it. It's the dictating to others what is right and wrong for them that helps create so many global problems.

As for this story it just proves to be careful what you wish for.


i agree with you,let the people vote on what they want,i certainly don't want the uk,usa dictating policy like they have done/tried too in the past,i was just asking how they separate religion from politics,those forces will eventually rub up against each other the more wealthy/independant the population become its inevitable,however long it takes

i don't mind relgious institutions but i certainly wouldn't want to be ruled by relgious doctrine myself but like you say its for countries to work out for themselves,which i assume is what is happening in the middle east after military dictatorships break down,everything has its pros and cons

Anyone who says anything about the middle-east isn't about oil, is lying.  Everything about the middle-east is about oil.  If it isn't about oil then we aren't involved.  Why do you think Africa gets ignored so much?

Because Africa is in a strategically poor location.   Plenty of African countries have oil.... and could be producing a lot more of it if they were more stable.

A lot more then Afganistan anyway, which has no real oil reserves.



Adinnieken said:
zuvuyeay said:
justinian said:
zuvuyeay said:
Zappykins said:
No not really. I would be more concerned with The Mormons and the Roman Catholic Church. Especially the later one's pull with so many of the supreme court justices.

I really wish people would just leave Politics and Religion separately. It's like mixing eggs sunny side up and chocolate rice crispies. They just don't play nice together.


just out of interest how do you separate politics from relgion when say for example the muslim brotherhood are the govts in power in egypt etc or wherever they have just got in,i can't remember now

That's the question. Religion and politics combined is how that part of the world is governed. If that's what the people want and vote for then leave them to it. I do however see your point.

The thing is this system is still stuck in the past. Who is to say it wont work well again in the future with some key changes?

I am for different political systems over the world, not the "everything almost the same" political systems so many people seem to be after.

Let people choose what system they want and leave them to it. It's the dictating to others what is right and wrong for them that helps create so many global problems.

As for this story it just proves to be careful what you wish for.


i agree with you,let the people vote on what they want,i certainly don't want the uk,usa dictating policy like they have done/tried too in the past,i was just asking how they separate religion from politics,those forces will eventually rub up against each other the more wealthy/independant the population become its inevitable,however long it takes

i don't mind relgious institutions but i certainly wouldn't want to be ruled by relgious doctrine myself but like you say its for countries to work out for themselves,which i assume is what is happening in the middle east after military dictatorships break down,everything has its pros and cons

The irony is that in the 1950's Iran had a duly elected parliamentary democracy and the UK and US helped overthrow it to reinstate the monarchy of the Shah of Iran.  Why?  Because BP Oil had interests in Iran and the Iranian government was forcibly buying them up. 

Roughly 20 years later, the Shah was overthrown, democracy ended, Shia Muslims gained power, and installed a theocracy that we're dealing with today.

Anyone who says anything about the middle-east isn't about oil, is lying.  Everything about the middle-east is about oil.  If it isn't about oil then we aren't involved.  Why do you think Africa gets ignored so much?


well said,there is no getting around the blame of the british over the years but of course the populations of countries still determine how they are ruled and have to take responsibility at some point

i'm not saying anything is right or wrong in say iran for exapmle because what do i know



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richardhutnik said:

http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/bachmann-muslim-brotherhood-infiltrating/2012/07/17/id/445620

Michele Bachmann and a number of other Republican congressmen have made this charge.

Sorry, to me, this sounds a bunch like the Red Scare led by McCarthy.  Maybe I am wrong.  Maybe someone can show that the Muslim Brotherhood has secretly infilirated the U.S government deeply.  

Nope you are right McCarthy is back from the dead. Stupid republicans who should be in a mental hospital. 



Kasz216 said:

Because Africa is in a strategically poor location.   Plenty of African countries have oil.... and could be producing a lot more of it if they were more stable.

A lot more then Afganistan anyway, which has no real oil reserves.

It's than, not then, and it's Afghanistan.  Than is used in a comparison, then is used in relationship to time or order.

No, as it just so happens, Afghanistan has something far more valuable.  One trillion (USD) in copper, gold, cobalt, lithium, beryllium, precious metals and other valuable metals.  Some of which, once tapped, will erode the power China has over its control of lithium and beryllium.

Regardless, the reason for going to war in Afghanistan was to go after the people responsible for 9/11.



lol, I can't believe people are trying to defend Bachmann here...

She's being quoted like this by centrist and conservative news outlets alike, and I've yet to hear the congresswoman herself walk back or correct her comments. I might BEGIN to believe the whole "context" defense once that happens.

Of course, I've only been paying minor attention to this, so maybe she has already.