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Forums - General Discussion - Song of Ice and Fire?

haxxiy on 07 July 2012
Faxanadu said:
haxxiy said:
Faxanadu said:
Attoyou said:
If you enjoy the books, Try the Malazan series and The Name of the Wind next.


The Name of the Wind is annoying with an annoying brat as the main character. The Way of Kings is much more enjoyable.


WoK was pretty awesome, although it dragged a lot and suffered from the immaculate, caste characters syndrome and black and white morality. It's way better than anything Patrick Rothfuss will ever deliver.

I didnt mind that, as I found the setting to be really unique and imaginative.

Yeah, very true. It has the potential to be the best one in pure fantasy so far, if Sanderson handles it right. That's what the genre needs I think - let's focus beyond our big egos for once and have less of pure human drama using magic as a backdrop and more of culture, ecology geography and societies that actually work



 

 

 

 

 

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Kantor on 07 July 2012
Jumpin said:
MrBubbles said:
The books...they are not very good. you see the problems stem from mr martin being an unimaginative sick fuck.
you dont read much, so you may not find even realize the issues. plenty of people seem to like the books for some unfathomable reason that tends me towards an even worse view of humanity.

the only real plot development in the books comes from people dying. and sometimes there isnt a logical reason for them to die or he just gets tired of writing them...so he does things like having some bitch shit a shadow from her cunt to go off and kill people. you want some deaths of course in a book. it creates concern over the characters, because you are uncertain of whats going to happen to them. but in this case...you get to a point when you expect everyone to die. oftentimes for no reason at all.

almost all the characters in the books are very one dimensional. almost parodies even...


As I've said, GRR Martin is fantasy for the Twilight generation; there is a lot of negativity that goes on in the story - he shoe-horns it in like some teenager attempting to write a tragedy story. He also adds in a lot of gratuitous scenes (like when the Dwarf character was about to rape the 12 year old Stark girl); and this is the sort of stuff that fans will mistakenly call "depth" and "edginess". 

For the people who like it because of all the death in it, and wondering who's going to suddenly die next, have I got a movie genre for you! Start with this one:

 

Okay, that is ridiculous.

At no point did Tyrion try to rape Sansa (your inability to even remember their names makes me wonder whether you've even read the book) and indeed, he does quite the opposite. She is his wife, and he can legally do whatever he wants with her. He sees that she is uncomfortable and leaves her alone.

This is the same character who [storm of swords] kills his own father with a crossbow.

How can you possibly say that the characters have no depth? Tyrion is one of the greatest characters in any series ever.

There's hardly any sex at all in that series. The show exaggerates it enormously. Tyrion does initially seem sex-crazed with all of his chasing after prostitutes, but that's because of the fact that nobody ever loved him and his father ordered his wife to be gangraped by an entire platoon of soldiers. That would mess up anybody, and he deals with it remarkably well.



(Former) Lead Moderator and (Eternal) VGC Detective

Kantor on 07 July 2012
MrBubbles said:
ugh...i see now you are a pratchett fan...i shouldnt have wasted time warning you... just writing down the most random absurd thing you can think of, regardless that it doesnt even make sense in any way...is not funny.

sorry for wasting any time you took to read my previous post.

That's basically the central premise of British humour. I take it you don't like Douglas Adams or Monty Python either?



(Former) Lead Moderator and (Eternal) VGC Detective

Pjams on 07 July 2012
Fusioncode said:
The books are fantastic, better than the show.Book 3 especially is one of the greatest books ever written. Unfortunately books 4 and 5 are fairly weak in comparison. Just be ready for very long descriptions of every single meal in the novel.


Yeah, book 3 is my favorite, but I'm rereading book 5 right now, really enjoying it.



 

huiii on 07 July 2012

Im about 200 to 300 pages into the first book and i haeven't watched the series. But my main concern with the book(s) is that i find them to drag and the caracter development has fallen a bit flat (they have you yet to give me a caracter that i can identify with. Most of the children are stupid brats and the adults are either duches or ignorant fools (just my opinion)).
Then again i'm only about 300 pages in.

I put the books aside for the time beeing. They arn't bad it's just that i've had enough other stuff to read, that i could connect to better. T intend to pick them up again and read them all since i already own them.
Though that comment someone posted about waiting till book 3 for it to haveing a faster pace scares me somewhat.



@ pezus you should definitely pick up terry pratchet he is genious, weird but genious.

@ the Patrick Rothfuss descussion. Anyone who is considering picking up the "name of the wind" should wait another 2-4 years since that is how long it will take for him to write the next book and beeing left hanging for so long is no fun



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Pjams on 08 July 2012
huiii said:

Im about 200 to 300 pages into the first book and i haeven't watched the series. But my main concern with the book(s) is that i find them to drag and the caracter development has fallen a bit flat (they have you yet to give me a caracter that i can identify with. Most of the children are stupid brats and the adults are either duches or ignorant fools (just my opinion)).
Then again i'm only about 300 pages in.

I put the books aside for the time beeing. They arn't bad it's just that i've had enough other stuff to read, that i could connect to better. T intend to pick them up again and read them all since i already own them.
Though that comment someone posted about waiting till book 3 for it to haveing a faster pace scares me somewhat.



@ pezus you should definitely pick up terry pratchet he is genious, weird but genious.

@ the Patrick Rothfuss descussion. Anyone who is considering picking up the "name of the wind" should wait another 2-4 years since that is how long it will take for him to write the next book and beeing left hanging for so long is no fun


Martin generally spends 3/4 of the books building characters and creating plot. The last 1/4 unveils motives and consequences, and they're absolutely world changing. The story you're reading right now is far from the story you'll be reading in a few more hundred pages.



 

Faxanadu on 08 July 2012
haxxiy said:
Faxanadu said:
haxxiy said:
Faxanadu said:
Attoyou said:
If you enjoy the books, Try the Malazan series and The Name of the Wind next.


The Name of the Wind is annoying with an annoying brat as the main character. The Way of Kings is much more enjoyable.


WoK was pretty awesome, although it dragged a lot and suffered from the immaculate, caste characters syndrome and black and white morality. It's way better than anything Patrick Rothfuss will ever deliver.

I didnt mind that, as I found the setting to be really unique and imaginative.

Yeah, very true. It has the potential to be the best one in pure fantasy so far, if Sanderson handles it right. That's what the genre needs I think - let's focus beyond our big egos for once and have less of pure human drama using magic as a backdrop and more of culture, ecology geography and societies that actually work

Yes. Wheel of Time started great, but at about book 6 or 7 I stopped as it became a slow, tangled mess.



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WereKitten on 08 July 2012
haxxiy said:
...

Yeah, very true. It has the potential to be the best one in pure fantasy so far, if Sanderson handles it right. That's what the genre needs I think - let's focus beyond our big egos for once and have less of pure human drama using magic as a backdrop and more of culture, ecology geography and societies that actually work

You should try China Mieville's "New Crobuzon" books: Perdido Street Station, The Scar, The Iron Council.

If you can endure Mieville's in-your-face ingenuity with language and can keep the pace, they are extremely interesting pieces of world smithing, with a very rich political background.

That's something you'll find in most of his books, actually, which is why Ursula K. Le Guin praised so much his Embassytown - and I can't think of much better recommendations I'd look for in an author.

Updated, note: they must be read in English. He's pretty much not translatable.



"All you need in life is ignorance and confidence; then success is sure." - Mark Twain

"..." - Gordon Freeman

Kantor on 08 July 2012
huiii said:

Im about 200 to 300 pages into the first book and i haeven't watched the series. But my main concern with the book(s) is that i find them to drag and the caracter development has fallen a bit flat (they have you yet to give me a caracter that i can identify with. Most of the children are stupid brats and the adults are either duches or ignorant fools (just my opinion)).
Then again i'm only about 300 pages in.

I put the books aside for the time beeing. They arn't bad it's just that i've had enough other stuff to read, that i could connect to better. T intend to pick them up again and read them all since i already own them.
Though that comment someone posted about waiting till book 3 for it to haveing a faster pace scares me somewhat.



@ pezus you should definitely pick up terry pratchet he is genious, weird but genious.

@ the Patrick Rothfuss descussion. Anyone who is considering picking up the "name of the wind" should wait another 2-4 years since that is how long it will take for him to write the next book and beeing left hanging for so long is no fun

Keep reading, and keep an eye on Tyrion, Arya, Daenerys and Jon. Those are most people's favourites from the early part of the series.



(Former) Lead Moderator and (Eternal) VGC Detective

non-gravity on 08 July 2012

haxxiy said:
 A Feast for Crows and a Dance with Dragons aren't quite in par with the previous two books but are still as good as the first one. It's main flaw lies on the needless points of view and threads of the story that go nowhere. 

*cough Brienne, Arya, Samwell, Brann cough*

I guess Jaime and Sansa have somewhat of a purpose