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Forums - Sony Discussion - Nintendo gets a pass Just because they're Nintendo That Sony Isn't Allowed To Have

Well what I was trying to say is that Nintendo gets a free pass from their core fans for mainly going casual with Wii that Sony ( or Microsoft ) would not have received from their fans if they had started out the current console gen on a similar path. Nintendo did the only thing imho that they could have done to be as succesful as they've been; however, Sony and Microsoft did the same.

A lot of core Nintendo fans thought that after they became successful with Wii, around the same time as E3 2008, that Nintendo would switch away from making games for the casuals and instead focus exclusively on making core games and new franchises for the core gamer; however, this wasn't the case, and Nintendo is not critized for it by their long term core fans even though it looks like they're still interested in producing more casual games like Nintendo Land and Wii Fit U on Wii U which many believed for the last year was going to be a console aimed squarely at the core gamer.

I've even seen Wii Play praised in this thread and it's the lowest rated of the Wii Series games by most critics. I don't think Microsoft fans praise Kinect Adventures as being up there with the Halo and Gears games as being one of the best titles on the 360. Of the three console manufactures, Sony remains the one focused on what gaming is traditionally about and expanding gaming as an interactive artform with games like The Last of Us, Beyond Two Souls, and The Uncharted Series ( maybe because they've not been as successful in the casual market as Nintendo and Microsoft or maybe because they really are dedicated to the types of games that have made their systems stand out the past two gens -- mature storytelling, fast action, not just smiles.



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logic56 said:
leo-j said:
How in the world did this thread get over 100 replies..

handed them an excuse on a silver platter, from a Sony fan no less, so they're totally justified


Yeah, we get it. You think Nintendo fans victimise Sony fans. Okay.



EdHieron said:

Well what I was trying to say is that Nintendo gets a free pass from their core fans for mainly going casual with Wii that Sony ( or Microsoft ) would not have received from their fans if they had started out the current console gen on a similar path. Nintendo did the only thing imho that they could have done to be as succesful as they've been; however, Sony and Microsoft did the same.

 A lot of core Nintendo fans thought that after they became successful with Wii, around the same time as E3 2008, that Nintendo would switch away from making games for the casuals and instead focus exclusively on making core games and new franchises for the core gamer; however, this wasn't the case, and Nintendo is not critized for it by their long term core fans even though it looks like they're still interested in producing more casual games like Nintendo Land and Wii Fit U on Wii U which many believed for the last year was going to be a console aimed squarely at the core gamer.

As people pointed out already, the Wii got a similar number of core games as the Gamecube. You simply ignore Zelda, Mario, Metroid, Kirby, Xenoblade, Pandoras Tower, disaster, etc. to construct your argument. Your argument has no base, as Nintendo didn't abandoned the core-gamer with the Wii, they only did support additionally the casuals (like Sony did with PS and PS2). You also concentrate on Nintendo Land and Wii Fit U for Wii U and completely ignore Pikmin and Mario. Core Nintendo fans don't give the company a free pass, they play their core games as they did with the GC. So, whats even the point of this thread?



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Mnementh said:
EdHieron said:

Well what I was trying to say is that Nintendo gets a free pass from their core fans for mainly going casual with Wii that Sony ( or Microsoft ) would not have received from their fans if they had started out the current console gen on a similar path. Nintendo did the only thing imho that they could have done to be as succesful as they've been; however, Sony and Microsoft did the same.

 A lot of core Nintendo fans thought that after they became successful with Wii, around the same time as E3 2008, that Nintendo would switch away from making games for the casuals and instead focus exclusively on making core games and new franchises for the core gamer; however, this wasn't the case, and Nintendo is not critized for it by their long term core fans even though it looks like they're still interested in producing more casual games like Nintendo Land and Wii Fit U on Wii U which many believed for the last year was going to be a console aimed squarely at the core gamer.

As people pointed out already, the Wii got a similar number of core games as the Gamecube. You simply ignore Zelda, Mario, Metroid, Kirby, Xenoblade, Pandoras Tower, disaster, etc. to construct your argument. Your argument has no base, as Nintendo didn't abandoned the core-gamer with the Wii, they only did support additionally the casuals (like Sony did with PS and PS2). You also concentrate on Nintendo Land and Wii Fit U for Wii U and completely ignore Pikmin and Mario. Core Nintendo fans don't give the company a free pass, they play their core games as they did with the GC. So, whats even the point of this thread?


Disaster, Pandora's Tower, etc. weren't released in the US.  And Sony still had time to put out their old core franchises like Ratchet and Clank, Sly Cooper, Hot Shots Golf, God of War, War Hawk, MLB, Gran Turismo, and Twisted Metal this gen; but, they also put out brand new core franchises like Infamous, Uncharted, Heavy Rain, Beyond, Resistance, Heavenly Sword, Folklore, Journey, Star Hawk and more. 



EdHieron said:
Mnementh said:
 

As people pointed out already, the Wii got a similar number of core games as the Gamecube. You simply ignore Zelda, Mario, Metroid, Kirby, Xenoblade, Pandoras Tower, disaster, etc. to construct your argument. Your argument has no base, as Nintendo didn't abandoned the core-gamer with the Wii, they only did support additionally the casuals (like Sony did with PS and PS2). You also concentrate on Nintendo Land and Wii Fit U for Wii U and completely ignore Pikmin and Mario. Core Nintendo fans don't give the company a free pass, they play their core games as they did with the GC. So, whats even the point of this thread?


Disaster, Pandora's Tower, etc. weren't released in the US.  And Sony still had time to put out their old core franchises like Ratchet and Clank, Sly Cooper, Hot Shots Golf, God of War, War Hawk, MLB, Gran Turismo, and Twisted Metal this gen; but, they also put out brand new core franchises like Infamous, Uncharted, Heavy Rain, Beyond, Resistance, Heavenly Sword, Folklore, Journey, Star Hawk and more.

etc.? Which games besides these two weren't released in the US? Anyways, it doesn't change what I say: the Wii got similar core-support from Nintendo as the Gamecube. So what free pass you're talking about? And why do you talk about Sony? Yes, also Nintendo pulled out their old core franchises and created new core franchises. So, why did you bring Sony into the game?



3DS-FC: 4511-1768-7903 (Mii-Name: Mnementh), Nintendo-Network-ID: Mnementh, Switch: SW-7706-3819-9381 (Mnementh)

my greatest games: 2017, 2018, 2019, 2020, 2021

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Mnementh said:
EdHieron said:
Mnementh said:
 

As people pointed out already, the Wii got a similar number of core games as the Gamecube. You simply ignore Zelda, Mario, Metroid, Kirby, Xenoblade, Pandoras Tower, disaster, etc. to construct your argument. Your argument has no base, as Nintendo didn't abandoned the core-gamer with the Wii, they only did support additionally the casuals (like Sony did with PS and PS2). You also concentrate on Nintendo Land and Wii Fit U for Wii U and completely ignore Pikmin and Mario. Core Nintendo fans don't give the company a free pass, they play their core games as they did with the GC. So, whats even the point of this thread?


Disaster, Pandora's Tower, etc. weren't released in the US.  And Sony still had time to put out their old core franchises like Ratchet and Clank, Sly Cooper, Hot Shots Golf, God of War, War Hawk, MLB, Gran Turismo, and Twisted Metal this gen; but, they also put out brand new core franchises like Infamous, Uncharted, Heavy Rain, Beyond, Resistance, Heavenly Sword, Folklore, Journey, Star Hawk and more.

etc.? Which games besides these two weren't released in the US? Anyways, it doesn't change what I say: the Wii got similar core-support from Nintendo as the Gamecube. So what free pass you're talking about? And why do you talk about Sony? Yes, also Nintendo pulled out their old core franchises and created new core franchises. So, why did you bring Sony into the game?


Captain Rainbow, Fatal Frame.  This forum is in the Sony section, and I'm talking about Sony to show that they didn't get a free pass.  If they hadn't created all these games this gen ( even the ones that didn't go over so well) it's very probable that their core fans wouldn't have stuck by them.  On the other hand, Nintendo developed far fewer new core ips than Sony this gen and probably contributed many more resources to their blue ocean geared projects, yet one doesn't hear the Nintendo fans talk about the comparative lack of new core ips on their console ( even though most Nintendo fans thought Nintendo would switch to exclusively making core games for the Wii after they had established it as a successful console  http://wii.ign.com/articles/882/882256p1.html .

 And now they're pulling the same thing with the Wii U.  It seemed as if it would be geared to the core ever since it was first announced, but now it looks like Nintendo plans to have it appeal to the casual as much as the core.  Where's Nintendo's Uncharted, Infamous, or The Last of Us and where's their Journey or Beyond:  Two Souls?  Instead there's a kids offering like Nintendo Land, yet another iteration of Wii Fit, and more Mario and Pikmin and no doubt a Mario Kart in the not too distant future and more Zelda, but where's their new core ips?  It seems like they're not interested in making them. 

 



EdHieron said:

Captain Rainbow, Fatal Frame.  This forum is in the Sony section, and I'm talking about Sony to show that they didn't get a free pass.  If they hadn't created all these games this gen ( even the ones that didn't go over so well) it's very probable that their core fans wouldn't have stuck by them.  On the other hand, Nintendo developed far fewer new core ips than Sony this gen and probably contributed many more resources to their blue ocean geared projects, yet one doesn't hear the Nintendo fans talk about the comparative lack of new core ips on their console ( even though most Nintendo fans thought Nintendo would switch to exclusively making core games for the Wii after they had established it as a successful console  http://wii.ign.com/articles/882/882256p1.html .

 And now they're pulling the same thing with the Wii U.  It seemed as if it would be geared to the core ever since it was first announced, but now it looks like Nintendo plans to have it appeal to the casual as much as the core.  Where's Nintendo's Uncharted, Infamous, or The Last of Us and where's their Journey or Beyond:  Two Souls?  Instead there's a kids offering like Nintendo Land, yet another iteration of Wii Fit, and more Mario and Pikmin and no doubt a Mario Kart in the not too distant future and more Zelda, but where's their new core ips?  It seems like they're not interested in making them.

Captain Rainbow wouldn't have worked outside of Japan. Fatal Frame isn't a Nintendo franchise and isn't a new IP. Nintendo released just as many new "core IPs" on Wii as on the Gamecube; that some of them didn't make it to America is irrelevant to that point. What gets me, though, is that you use only the definition of "core" that suits your argument. Do you really think a game about a cute little guy running around pulling up living flowers out of the ground would be considered "core" in other contexts? The game is considered core because the core liked it. That's the only measure that the "core" ever uses, in truth, to decide the status of a game.

And no, Nintendo is most certainly not "pulling the same thing with Wii U". What they've done is they have announced their launch lineup. And in their launch lineup, they have learned lessons from the GameCube, Wii, DS, and 3DS launches. They know that "core" gamers will buy the system so long as there's something solid (read: New Super Mario Bros U and Pikmin 3) at launch, and that third parties don't want too much competition from Nintendo's own franchises at launch. They also know that "casual" gamers need more motivation to want to buy the system, and thus are releasing appropriate titles (read: NintendoLand, Wii Fit U). They also know that NintendoLand is necessary in order to provide a game that can sell the system to more people when they try it.

And so, Nintendo gave a lot of focus to, for instance, ZombiU. They're publishing Lego City Undercover, Project P-100, and Ninja Gaiden 3: Razor's Edge. They've let Namco Bandai include Nintendo stuff in Tekken Tag Tournament 2. And the list isn't complete, yet. We already know that there's Madden and Fifa coming, and about 99.9% certain that Black Ops 2 is coming.

And they restricted all information to only the titles heading to the system for the launch window. 2013 titles haven't been mentioned at all, and with good reason.

In other words, Nintendo hasn't put itself into a position of needing a pass. Nintendo gamers aren't obsessed with quantity of games - we prefer quality. Nintendo gave us Mario Galaxy. They gave us New Super Mario Bros. They gave us two Wii Zelda games. They gave us Metroid Prime 3.

And for the record, Zelda IS Nintendo's "Uncharted". Infamous was made by Sucker Punch, which was independent at the time (it's since been bought by Sony). The Last of Us isn't releasing until 2013. Journey is made by a third party, as is Beyond: Two Souls - in other words, why doesn't ZombiU or Tank Tank Tank count? And why no mention of Xenoblade?

For that matter, do I need to point out that Nintendo fans didn't even REMOTELY give Nintendo a pass when it looked like Xenoblade, The Last Story, and Pandora's Tower would all fail to show up in America? Oh, but wait, that doesn't fit into the Sony fanboy's narrative about Nintendo fans ignoring Nintendo's actions that disadvantage them.



EdHieron said:

This forum is in the Sony section, and I'm talking about Sony to show that they didn't get a free pass.

I didn't even noticed, that this thread is in the Sony-section, until someone mentioned it. The thread and the OP clearly are about Nintendo.

 

EdHieron said:

If they hadn't created all these games this gen ( even the ones that didn't go over so well) it's very probable that their core fans wouldn't have stuck by them. 

If Nintendo didn't have created all these games this gen, it's very probable that their core fans wouldn't have stuck by them. Again, you ignore that Nintendo did make core games, and they did about the same amount as on the GC. So if Nintendo abandoned core on the Wii, they already did that on the GC, a claim not many would support.

 

EdHieron said:

On the other hand, Nintendo developed far fewer new core ips than Sony this gen...

On the other hand, Nintendo has far fewer dev-studios than Sony and was able to create new core IPs like Disaster, Xenoblade, Pandoras Tower. They started with a completely new take on the Metroid-series with Other M, after they completed the Prime-trilogy.

 

EdHieron said:

and probably contributed many more resources to their blue ocean geared projects 

Sony prbably contributed too much resources to casual crap like Singstar, Eye Toy, Buzz etc in the PS2-days. They were totally abandoning the core, or did they?

Count simply the number of casual titles from Nintendo: Wii Sports, Wii Sport Resort, Wii Play, Wii Music, Wii Fit, Wii Fit Plus, Wii Party. Did I miss something important? None of these titles takes much resources. I would think, they all together have used not more resources than one of the two Zelda-titles. So if they gave up on all these casual titles, they could have probably produced one other good core game.

But to only mathc the number of titles: Zelda TP, Zelda SS, Metroid Prime 3, Metroid Other M, Fire Emblem RD, Super Smash Bros., Mario Galaxy, Mario Galaxy 2 - oh, already more titles than this unstoppable flood of casual titles. Maybe I forgot one casual title. But I can name some more core-titles. So, do you really REALLY want to claim Nintendo contributed more resources to their blue ocean games? Are you sure?

 

EdHieron said:

yet one doesn't hear the Nintendo fans talk about the comparative lack of new core ips on their console 

You fail to proof a lack of core games.

 

EdHieron said:

( even though most Nintendo fans thought Nintendo would switch to exclusively making core games for the Wii after they had established it as a successful console  http://wii.ign.com/articles/882/882256p1.html

Again you make things up. Where in this article is mentioned Nintendo turns to 'exclusively making core games for the Wii after they had established it as a successful console'. This article never says such a thing. And as showed, the Wii got their core-titles as announced in this article, alongside with casual titles.

 

 

 

 

EdHieron said:

 And now they're pulling the same thing with the Wii U.  It seemed as if it would be geared to the core ever since it was first announced, but now it looks like Nintendo plans to have it appeal to the casual as much as the core.

'It seemed as if it would be geared to the core' - says who?

 'but now it looks like Nintendo plans to have it appeal to the casual as much as the core.' - like the PS2 did.... I see no problem.

 

EdHieron said:

Where's Nintendo's Uncharted, Infamous, or The Last of Us and where's their Journey or Beyond:  Two Souls?

Where's Sonys or Microsofts Zelda, Metroid, Mario, Xenoblade, Pandoras Tower, Kirby, Donkey Kong?

 

 

EdHieron said:

Instead there's a kids offering like Nintendo Land, yet another iteration of Wii Fit, and more Mario and Pikmin and no doubt a Mario Kart in the not too distant future and more Zelda, but where's their new core ips?  It seems like they're not interested in making them.

So, you name core titles along casual titles here. I don't see any problem in the mix. Then you complain about missing new core IPs. But the Wii got some, so the WiiU might get some in the future too. But I would be upset, if they release no Zelda or only a bad Zelda, because they shift their resources to new IPs, that might or might not work. Mario-fans may say the same about Mario.

And Sony may have developed many new core IPs this gen. That's fine for the fans. But now  the number of IPs has reached only a similar amount than Nintendo already had. So Sony probably had to develop the new stuff, to catch up to the company, that was around two gens more. Probably Sony develops less new IPs this gen, as they produce sequels for the existing series. Or they drop some of the less successful franchises.



3DS-FC: 4511-1768-7903 (Mii-Name: Mnementh), Nintendo-Network-ID: Mnementh, Switch: SW-7706-3819-9381 (Mnementh)

my greatest games: 2017, 2018, 2019, 2020, 2021

10 years greatest game event!

bets: [peak year] [+], [1], [2], [3], [4]

Mnementh said:
EdHieron said:

Well what I was trying to say is that Nintendo gets a free pass from their core fans for mainly going casual with Wii that Sony ( or Microsoft ) would not have received from their fans if they had started out the current console gen on a similar path. Nintendo did the only thing imho that they could have done to be as succesful as they've been; however, Sony and Microsoft did the same.

 A lot of core Nintendo fans thought that after they became successful with Wii, around the same time as E3 2008, that Nintendo would switch away from making games for the casuals and instead focus exclusively on making core games and new franchises for the core gamer; however, this wasn't the case, and Nintendo is not critized for it by their long term core fans even though it looks like they're still interested in producing more casual games like Nintendo Land and Wii Fit U on Wii U which many believed for the last year was going to be a console aimed squarely at the core gamer.

As people pointed out already, the Wii got a similar number of core games as the Gamecube. You simply ignore Zelda, Mario, Metroid, Kirby, Xenoblade, Pandoras Tower, disaster, etc. to construct your argument. Your argument has no base, as Nintendo didn't abandoned the core-gamer with the Wii, they only did support additionally the casuals (like Sony did with PS and PS2). You also concentrate on Nintendo Land and Wii Fit U for Wii U and completely ignore Pikmin and Mario. Core Nintendo fans don't give the company a free pass, they play their core games as they did with the GC. So, whats even the point of this thread

Don't bother with him. He joined right after E3, probably only to drive the narrative that Nintendo is compared to Sony in an unfair light, just like some other relatively new members that joined around the same time. He also tries to awaken hate against Launch WiiU games. The timing, and the content really makes all of this seem suspicious.



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Jumpin said:
RolStoppable said:
So where in this did Nintendo get a pass?


1274 Shinjuku Street, Tokyo.

Haha wonderful answer!

 

 

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