What are you talking about? Obama would be anti-Israel! Heck he was raised muslim and his middle name is HUSSEIN! Give the guy a break! ; )

You really can't see the difference between attacking a military target hiding among civilans and indiscriminately blowing up as many random civilians as possible?

The US supports a 2-state solution and it supports Israel precisely because if it did not the rest of the Middle East would just wipe it out. It also prevents Israel from indiscriminately wiping out all Palestinians. ;>

Not to mention that once Israel did pull back, the Palestinian people rewarded the action by endorsing further terrorism, re-escalating the violence, and again trying to push their case that Israel shouldn't exist at all by electing Hamas.

@kas

I think we are done here. From what I can see your whole point is Palestinians are the sole cause of the violence and they need to act first if they want a state. My whole point is both cause violence and since Israel is the only one with: power, money, established economy, freedom, military, nuclear weapons, international geneva convention violations, etc, they need to make the first move and follow those international laws prior to expecting the people they control and have ultimate responsibility for to stop resisting the illegal occupation of their homes and lives.

@DKII

There is no difference in Israel's actions of 'bombing' a civilian mass to kill a couple of "terrorists" and these same rebels blindly shooting missiles into another civilian mass to kill what they view as "terrorists". Both sides view each other as the ultimate terrorist and both have their merits in that definition. Both are not targeting military objects, but are targeting anyone that is not like them. Therefore both actions are equally wrong.

The US supports a 2-state solution based solely on Israel's view of that solution. That is the problem. US doctrine is not unbiased in its proposal's. The "rest of the Middle East" has tried multiple times to wipe out Israel and has lost every time. Why? Because everytime the Middle East fighters have not been truly uniformed and are always outnumbered and outgunned. At this point in time there is no way any Arab nation would even consider a war with Nuclear armed Israel. They are all still outnumbered and outgunned by a massive margin.

The only thing that prevents Israel from indiscriminately wiping out the rest of the Arabs from the lands are that it is a democracy with a sizable non-extremist population. Why do you think they still continue to expand and build settlements? This is the extremist portion of Israel that is still advocating the complete removal Arabs. They are still trying to put facts on the ground that all of the West Bank was and will be Israel. Just because they are not gassing them doesn't mean they are not trying to remove the Arab problem. The 500k or so people living in these settlements are the root cause of the issues. These people are equal to Hamas in every intellectual way, just the opposite. The big difference is you don't see their actions on the front pages of our papers.

Israel's pull back out of Gaza has not re-escalated any violence. In fact it has stopped all violence stemming from Gaza, except missiles, since Israel can now effectively close off the entire strip. The Palestinian people elected Hamas for reasons you don't understand. Firstly, the PA is corrupt and Hamas largely is not. Second, Hamas actually receives more expendable cash, since it has a much smaller bureaucracy, and in turn spends it on social services, like hospitals and schools. These are the primary reasons the mass of the people voted for them over the PA. The much smaller reason is Hamas is the only ones that seem to be actually resisting Israel. PA for years has been trying to do what the US and Israel say without actually getting any results. When Israel left Gaza, it wasn't viewed as a sign that the PA's cooperation with the west gained that land. It was, correctly, viewed as a sign the Israel was tired of fighting within its borders over the illegal settlements. Israel did not want to keep spending the $ on those settlements and , correctly, thought it was be easier and less costlier to focus solely on the border. So to the average Palestinian Hamas' actions won. Based solely on that, if you were an average Palestinian, who would you have voted for?

As I said before, if Israel truly wanted peace with the Arabs it is easily attainable.
1. move back to 67 borders.
2. make real retribution for the millions of refugees, not in Israel, but in the new Palestinian state.

All Arab nations have already laid a foundation to this compromise a few years back and even recently resubmitted this solution and a final peace agreement. Israel however, doesn't want this. They want a 2-state solution on their terms. That is why they continue to build and expand settlements and continue to build their wall around the West Bank. This will never create peace.

 I seriously hope you are joking. Obama was not raised muslim. He is not muslim. He has been raised by his mother a Christian and has always been a Christian. He has stated that he would continue the US doctrine the pro-Israeli ties and has received large payments from the Israeli lobby AIPAC.

Nah I think there is violence on both sides. However the violence has to stop first from the nation who expects something.

If Palestine wants land back from israel they are the ones who are going to have to stop fighting, and are going to hand in Hamas for international trials.

They are the ones who want something. So they have to be the ones to take the first step to get what they want as the current situation benfits Israel.

Otherwise more innocent crossfire like the ones today are going to keep occuring.

I assume so, though i've heard people say they won't vote for Obama because they don't think it's time for a Muslim to be president or my favorite "I don't like that he won't swear on a Bible but will swear on a Quran...

some peole... 

 I am referring to current circumstances.  Exactly how many Jews in Israel that are still left do you believe immigrated straight after WWII???  It's not many.  The vast majority were born there and it is their home more than anyone elses.  Just as most Palestinian's that are alive today were never forced off their land, their parents were.  Britian may have done wrong by displacing so many Palestinians, however that is not the fault of Jews living in Israel.  And as long as these Jews are surrounded by enemies launching suicide attacks and calling for Israel's destruction, exactly what impetus do they have to offer olive branches?

Easily attainable?  Do you honestly believe that HAMAS and their like would let up even if Israel did both of the two things you have listed.

Why on earth should Israel move back to it's pre-1967 borders.  An attack that would have completely wiped them out was imminent (not even the Arab states deny this) and through what was undoubtedely a fluke Israel won the ensuing war.  If they ever move back to their 1967 borders, it should not be viewed as meeting a debt, but as an act of EXTREME generosity.

As for making retribution, you are once again ignoring what I, and many others in this thread have showed you.  The Israeli Jews living in Israel now never displaced Palestinians.  Arguably, not even their ancestors did, it was the UK.  And as you yourself have said, whilst these jews have been alive, the Palestinians have been just as wrong to attack them as they have been to attack Palestinians.  They owe them NOTHING because the Israelis that are alive today did nothing to the Palestinians that are alive today that wasn't done straight back. 

In other words, you think the weaker side should always surrender and the stronger side can always do what it wants. Interesting Darwinian perspective, but those of us who'd like to live in a civilised world would prefer that such matters be arranged according to international law. E.g. Israel has to completely dismantle its colonies in occupied territories as those are in direct violation of international law (and the root cause of all the violence, I might add).