By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - General Discussion - One thing Obama won't change

starcraft on 17 January 2008
superchunk said:
starcraft said:
 

That is the most blatant and disgusting selective quoting I have ever see. You take a double-negative sentence, cut it in half so as to directly flip it's meaning, then try to sell it as my belief.

I strongly suggest you edit that post out, because if not, it will be extremely easy for anyone on these forums to use this conversation to dismiss your credibility entirely.

I thought this was a remotely civil and intelligent debate until you pulled out that gem mate. Extremely mature.


Edited, I misread your original post, I did not intentionally misquote you. Sorry.


 Fair enough....i'll edit my quote out so there is no record



starcraft - Playing Games = FUN, Talking about Games = SERIOUS

Around the Network
starcraft on 17 January 2008
Rab said:
starcraft said:
superchunk said:
 

@starcraft -- Yes, at this point we should just agree to disagree. Though I still don't understand how a people who have international laws backing them should not be compensated for their lands and homes that were stolen. :(


I sympathise with the Palestinian's plight, I really do. And in a fair world they would be entitled to compensation from somewhere. It is just that any attrocities that current Israeli jews might have committed tend to be the kind that simply come with war, and are normally in response to, or immediately followed by a retaliation from the Palestinians. The major oppressions you are talking about were committed mainly by third party nations or Jews (and Israeli Arabs) that have died, and were mainly committed against Palestinians that have died.

So my point is not that the Palestinians are not suffering, but that it is unfair to blame their suffering on Israel, and especially on currently living Israeli's by compelling them to pay compensation. Most currently living Israeli's (Jew and Arab) were born in their country and from their perspective cannot be expected to know anything beyond the fact that many Palestinians would be quite happy for them to permanantly disappear, and many (though a smaller number) actively pursue this goal through war.

If Israel were to offer substantial assistence to help form a Palestinian state and eradicate poverty (they already do, but I mean something drastic) in an entirely voluntary environment as a neighbour helping another neighbour, I would be completely behind that. I just think that any payment that was obviously made as some sort of 'compensation' would force currently living Israeli's to admit wrong doing for something that was set in motion long before they were born or old enough to prevent it. Just like the Palestinians, they have known only war.

The Palestinians live an extremely unfair life, but two wrongs do not make a right, and it is just as unfair to blame the people's current plight on modern Israel.



I doubt you would be talking this way if you or your family were in the same boat as the Palestians

It's obvious you have no real emotional connection to their plight, and only use cold reasoning to make your judgements (this of course would change in blink if you yourself were a refugee with little hope, then such cool reasoning would be replaced with the very real feeling of despair and all that goes with it)

 

 

 


 Actually Rab, if you'd read what I wrote properly you would see that I do not, in any way downplay the suffering of the Palestinians.  All I point out is that there are just as many ethics-based reasons why modern day Israeli's shouldn't have to be the ones to compensate the Palestinians as there are why they should.

I doubt you would hold your position if YOU were the one facing the loss of billions of dollars and being forced to accept the blame for the biggest series of attrocities since WWII, even though you have only ever known a two-sided war. 



starcraft - Playing Games = FUN, Talking about Games = SERIOUS

Kasz216 on 18 January 2008
starcraft said:
Rab said:
starcraft said:
superchunk said:
 

@starcraft -- Yes, at this point we should just agree to disagree. Though I still don't understand how a people who have international laws backing them should not be compensated for their lands and homes that were stolen. :(


I sympathise with the Palestinian's plight, I really do. And in a fair world they would be entitled to compensation from somewhere. It is just that any attrocities that current Israeli jews might have committed tend to be the kind that simply come with war, and are normally in response to, or immediately followed by a retaliation from the Palestinians. The major oppressions you are talking about were committed mainly by third party nations or Jews (and Israeli Arabs) that have died, and were mainly committed against Palestinians that have died.

So my point is not that the Palestinians are not suffering, but that it is unfair to blame their suffering on Israel, and especially on currently living Israeli's by compelling them to pay compensation. Most currently living Israeli's (Jew and Arab) were born in their country and from their perspective cannot be expected to know anything beyond the fact that many Palestinians would be quite happy for them to permanantly disappear, and many (though a smaller number) actively pursue this goal through war.

If Israel were to offer substantial assistence to help form a Palestinian state and eradicate poverty (they already do, but I mean something drastic) in an entirely voluntary environment as a neighbour helping another neighbour, I would be completely behind that. I just think that any payment that was obviously made as some sort of 'compensation' would force currently living Israeli's to admit wrong doing for something that was set in motion long before they were born or old enough to prevent it. Just like the Palestinians, they have known only war.

The Palestinians live an extremely unfair life, but two wrongs do not make a right, and it is just as unfair to blame the people's current plight on modern Israel.



I doubt you would be talking this way if you or your family were in the same boat as the Palestians

It's obvious you have no real emotional connection to their plight, and only use cold reasoning to make your judgements (this of course would change in blink if you yourself were a refugee with little hope, then such cool reasoning would be replaced with the very real feeling of despair and all that goes with it)

 

 

 


Actually Rab, if you'd read what I wrote properly you would see that I do not, in any way downplay the suffering of the Palestinians. All I point out is that there are just as many ethics-based reasons why modern day Israeli's shouldn't have to be the ones to compensate the Palestinians as there are why they should.

I doubt you would hold your position if YOU were the one facing the loss of billions of dollars and being forced to accept the blame for the biggest series of attrocities since WWII, even though you have only ever known a two-sided war.


 Exactly.  Which is something neither side would be able to see.  A connection to either side can lead do bias and unrealistic exectations.  Hence why there are such negotiation problems.



damkira on 18 January 2008
jankazimierz said:
What are you talking about? Obama would be anti-Israel! Heck he was raised muslim and his middle name is HUSSEIN! Give the guy a break! ; )

 No, he wasn't. His father (who named him) was a muslim and he attended a muslim school in indonesia when he was six, he also went to catholic schools. That doesn't make him a muslim, that also doesn't mean he's against israel. Stop lying.