By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - Sony Discussion - Tretton Talks PS4: “We’ve Never Been First, Never Been Cheapest”

Cobretti2 said:
spurgeonryan said:
I watched this on G4 I think. Most of what he Said was actually true. They do make quality devices.


Quality?

is that why I have had 4 PS2s and 2 PS3s? (one which was dead on arrival lol)

I guess Ryen is like Tretton they both know nothing about Sony

 

Ignorance is a bliss



    R.I.P Mr Iwata :'(

Around the Network
VetteDude said:
Adinnieken said:
Millenium said:
Hope this doesn't mean they're going to release the most expensive device whilst realising last whilst "having no gamez" during the first 1-2 years, cause guess what, it's debatable whether it actually turned out "better", and secondly: You can't afford it.

End of post.

Honestly, I think the reason why the PS3 didn't have a lot of games to begin with was the difficulty level in development.  If, as rumors suggest, Sony is going with an AMD Fusion processor, then I doubt they'll run into those problems.



If they go AMD Fusion I will never buy another Sony system. Fusion sucks, the GPU in them is terrible. Same if they go with a Bulldozer processor, they suck down soo much power and have terrible cache latency and a horrible decoder and front-end. Only AMD part they should have is an AMD Southern Islands GPU.

Plus Fusion doesn't make sense, why would they use an x86 CPU?

Well, the rumors are they're including two GPUs, the Fusion GPU as well as a secondary GPU.

My guess is that any processor that Sony used would be customized, no different with the an AMD Fusion processor.  So, some of the issues you speak of could very well be rectified by a customized processor.  That being said, there are no specs for AMDs 2012 slated Fusion processors, so how you can determine that they would offer poor performance is beyond me.  Yes, older, lower-end Fusion processors perform worse than a Pentium 4, but you're guessing as to what a future product with 0 specs does.

The reason for using an x86 processor is the ability to code for such a processor is significantly and fundamentally easier than coding for a Cell processor.  The vast majority of developers educated in the US and around the world learn how to develop object oriented code on multi-threaded symmetrical processors, not on parallel processors.  A development studio doesn't have to waste time and resources to re-train developers on parallel programming.  Not to mention, IBM has dropped all future development of the Cell processors. 

Would it be wiser for them to stick with a Power processor?  Yes, of course, but I haven't heard a single rumor to suggest Sony is going with a Power processor.  The only currently legitimate rumor is an AMD Fusion or AMD CPU, or you have the fanboy rumor of a 16 SPU Cell processor, 10GB of XDR2 memory and 10GB of GDDR6 memory.  As much as I would like to believe the next PlayStation will be produced with a non-existent CPU and non-existent video memory, as well as severely out of date system memory, I'm gonna say no and go with the more logical rumor of an AMD processor.

In January, you'll start to hear more concrete rumors regarding both the next PlayStation and Xbox.  If not, before then.  I sincerely doubt Sony will stick with the Cell, and until I hear a convincing rumor sourced from a solid source, I'm going to personally believe it is anything but a Cell processor.



Adinnieken said:
VetteDude said:
Adinnieken said:
Millenium said:
Hope this doesn't mean they're going to release the most expensive device whilst realising last whilst "having no gamez" during the first 1-2 years, cause guess what, it's debatable whether it actually turned out "better", and secondly: You can't afford it.

End of post.

Honestly, I think the reason why the PS3 didn't have a lot of games to begin with was the difficulty level in development.  If, as rumors suggest, Sony is going with an AMD Fusion processor, then I doubt they'll run into those problems.



If they go AMD Fusion I will never buy another Sony system. Fusion sucks, the GPU in them is terrible. Same if they go with a Bulldozer processor, they suck down soo much power and have terrible cache latency and a horrible decoder and front-end. Only AMD part they should have is an AMD Southern Islands GPU.

Plus Fusion doesn't make sense, why would they use an x86 CPU?

Well, the rumors are they're including two GPUs, the Fusion GPU as well as a secondary GPU.

My guess is that any processor that Sony used would be customized, no different with the an AMD Fusion processor.  So, some of the issues you speak of could very well be rectified by a customized processor.  That being said, there are no specs for AMDs 2012 slated Fusion processors, so how you can determine that they would offer poor performance is beyond me.  Yes, older, lower-end Fusion processors perform worse than a Pentium 4, but you're guessing as to what a future product with 0 specs does.

The reason for using an x86 processor is the ability to code for such a processor is significantly and fundamentally easier than coding for a Cell processor.  The vast majority of developers educated in the US and around the world learn how to develop object oriented code on multi-threaded symmetrical processors, not on parallel processors.  A development studio doesn't have to waste time and resources to re-train developers on parallel programming.  Not to mention, IBM has dropped all future development of the Cell processors. 

Would it be wiser for them to stick with a Power processor?  Yes, of course, but I haven't heard a single rumor to suggest Sony is going with a Power processor.  The only currently legitimate rumor is an AMD Fusion or AMD CPU, or you have the fanboy rumor of a 16 SPU Cell processor, 10GB of XDR2 memory and 10GB of GDDR6 memory.  As much as I would like to believe the next PlayStation will be produced with a non-existent CPU and non-existent video memory, as well as severely out of date system memory, I'm gonna say no and go with the more logical rumor of an AMD processor.

In January, you'll start to hear more concrete rumors regarding both the next PlayStation and Xbox.  If not, before then.  I sincerely doubt Sony will stick with the Cell, and until I hear a convincing rumor sourced from a solid source, I'm going to personally believe it is anything but a Cell processor.

I never said stick with the Cell. The Cell was the stupidest thing they did, luckily for them they rectified it partially by adding a rushed Nvidia GPU to the PS3 instead of just using 2 Cells for everything. That would have been doom for PS3, nobody would have developed for it. The 2012 Fusion processors use Bulldozer, see my comments on that. They should should use a Power processor OR even an ARM. A custom 6 or 8 core ARM Cortex-A15 clocked at 3.2-4GHz would perform great! (and add L3 cache).

Realistic expectations for RAM (not the fanboy ones like you said) IMO are 4GB of DDR3 (or XDR2, its probably the best RAM availible, low latency and super high speed, but RAMBUS has screwed up so many times before that nobody except Sony took them seriously on XDR, and nobody has taken them seriously about XDR2 (although the HD7900 series was rumored to use XDR2 over GDDR5, but they didn't). So I would say 4GB of DDR3 and 1GB of 256-bit GDDR5. Don't make the 128-bit mistake again, Sony. Can't afford to half the precious bandwidth.



spurgeonryan said:
Well maybe quality was the wrong word, but they do pack a lot of content into their systems.

I agrre. My N64 still works on a daily basis.


Agreed about pack a lot of content, this is probably what contributes to the reliability issues long term.

Sadly I think N64 (perhaps gamecube) will be the last consoles that we see that will work almost forver.

All this next gen tech as nice as it is, has more complexities that can cause failures.

 

I guess the old saying goes, they don't build them like they use to haha.



 

 

Roma said:
Cobretti2 said:
spurgeonryan said:
I watched this on G4 I think. Most of what he Said was actually true. They do make quality devices.


Quality?

is that why I have had 4 PS2s and 2 PS3s? (one which was dead on arrival lol)

I guess Ryen is like Tretton they both know nothing about Sony

 

Ignorance is a bliss

Yeah because 1 Person's experience equals to everyone.....  Electronics fail, The more complicated they become the more things can go wrong. I bought an HP laptop last month which I have had to return THREE times already (Wrong letter on one of the keys, left click didn't work another time and the most recent the fans stopped working. This must mean all HP laptops(Products even) are unreliable right? LOL! 



Around the Network
TheFallen said:
Roma said:
Cobretti2 said:
spurgeonryan said:
I watched this on G4 I think. Most of what he Said was actually true. They do make quality devices.


Quality?

is that why I have had 4 PS2s and 2 PS3s? (one which was dead on arrival lol)

I guess Ryen is like Tretton they both know nothing about Sony

 

Ignorance is a bliss

Yeah because 1 Person's experience equals to everyone.....  Electronics fail, The more complicated they become the more things can go wrong. I bought an HP laptop last month which I have had to return THREE times already (Wrong letter on one of the keys, left click didn't work another time and the most recent the fans stopped working. This must mean all HP laptops(Products even) are unreliable right? LOL! 

Dude, the failure rates of all three consoles are well-known.

Wii > PS3 > 360



TheFallen said:
Roma said:
Cobretti2 said:
spurgeonryan said:
I watched this on G4 I think. Most of what he Said was actually true. They do make quality devices.


Quality?

is that why I have had 4 PS2s and 2 PS3s? (one which was dead on arrival lol)

I guess Ryen is like Tretton they both know nothing about Sony

 

Ignorance is a bliss

Yeah because 1 Person's experience equals to everyone.....  Electronics fail, The more complicated they become the more things can go wrong. I bought an HP laptop last month which I have had to return THREE times already (Wrong letter on one of the keys, left click didn't work another time and the most recent the fans stopped working. This must mean all HP laptops(Products even) are unreliable right? LOL! 

Ignorance is a bliss



    R.I.P Mr Iwata :'(

Ajescent said:
dahuman said:

.............Tretton, you say the dumbest shit as usual, not that I'm surprised, not one bit....

Why is this "dumb"?


Because those are hollow words served as an excuse to not make SONY look bad to the press. Not being first was the reason the 360 prevailed, never being cheapest is the reason so many people don't pick up their products at the start. It's happening again with the 3DS where they are getting totally raped due to both reasons! AGAIN!

 

PS: The best machine they've built during an era was the PS1 era, the rest were questionable, but obviously the PS3 is a better and more powerful hardware than Wii, but not totally so vs the 360 when talking about ease of dev/cost/power ratio when things were more expensive.



dahuman said:
Ajescent said:
dahuman said:

.............Tretton, you say the dumbest shit as usual, not that I'm surprised, not one bit....

Why is this "dumb"?


Because those are hollow words served as an excuse to not make SONY look bad to the press. Not being first was the reason the 360 prevailed, never being cheapest is the reason so many people don't pick up their products at the start. It's happening again with the 3DS where they are getting totally raped due to both reasons! AGAIN!

 

PS: The best machine they've built during an era was the PS1 era, the rest were questionable, but obviously the PS3 is a better and more powerful hardware than Wii, but not totally so vs the 360 when talking about ease of dev/cost/power ratio when things were more expensive.

But no part of it was a lie, it's what they've done since day one and it worked for the PS1 and 2 and depending on what angle you look at it, the psp...so again I asked "dumb"?



PS One/2/p/3slim/Vita owner. I survived the Apocalyps3/Collaps3 and all I got was this lousy signature.


Xbox One: What are you doing Dave?

VetteDude said:

I never said stick with the Cell. The Cell was the stupidest thing they did, luckily for them they rectified it partially by adding a rushed Nvidia GPU to the PS3 instead of just using 2 Cells for everything. That would have been doom for PS3, nobody would have developed for it. The 2012 Fusion processors use Bulldozer, see my comments on that. They should should use a Power processor OR even an ARM. A custom 6 or 8 core ARM Cortex-A15 clocked at 3.2-4GHz would perform great! (and add L3 cache).

Realistic expectations for RAM (not the fanboy ones like you said) IMO are 4GB of DDR3 (or XDR2, its probably the best RAM availible, low latency and super high speed, but RAMBUS has screwed up so many times before that nobody except Sony took them seriously on XDR, and nobody has taken them seriously about XDR2 (although the HD7900 series was rumored to use XDR2 over GDDR5, but they didn't). So I would say 4GB of DDR3 and 1GB of 256-bit GDDR5. Don't make the 128-bit mistake again, Sony. Can't afford to half the precious bandwidth.

Well the 2012 Fusion line will be Piledriver based, which is an enhanced Bulldozer.  They're expected to have up to a 30% improvement in performance and reduced power consumption over the existing line.  That's if Sony uses a 2012 Piledriver-based Fusion processor.  If they go with a 2013 Steamroller-based Fusion processor, then you're likely to see even better performance.

Not to mention, the Piledriver-based Fusions actually have a reasonably good GPU in the HD 7560D.  Mate that, using CrossFire with another AMD GPU and you've got a graphical powerhouse.

In as far as RAM goes, if it is using a Fusion processor, right now that would mean it's using DDR3.  However, who knows what an additional GPU would use.