good luck gaining faith in the core audience, nintendo! for our sake...
RolStoppable said:
Sure. Long post ahead, let's look at the quotes.
"The Wii was able to reach a large number of new consumers who had never played games before by bringing hands-on experiences with its Wii Sports and Wii Fit," he explained. "However, we could not adequately create the situation that such new consumers played games frequently or for long, consistent periods. As a result, we could not sustain a good level of profit.
The reason why software sales took a nosedive is that Nintendo slowed down on releasing Wii games that their consumers would be interested in playing. After Wii Sports Resort, Wii Fit Plus and New Super Mario Bros. Wii (all in 2009), Nintendo basically called it quits and didn't bother anymore to supply sequels to these hugely popular games. The hunger for more games was there (as evidenced by the explosive sales of the Just Dance series), but people can't buy games that do not exist. "Moreover, regrettably, what we prioritised in order to reach out to the new audience was a bit too far from what we prioritised for those who play games as their hobby. Consequently, we presume some people felt that the Wii was not a game system for them or they were not willing to play with the Wii even though some compelling games had been released." This is misinterpretation on Iwata's part, because as pointed out above, Nintendo didn't prioritize their new audience. While 2010 still had Wii Party and Donkey Kong Country Returns, Nintendo's lineup leaned towards more dedicated gamers with games like Monster Hunter Tri, Super Mario Galaxy 2 and Sin & Punishment 2. The year 2011 was mostly emptiness on Nintendo's part with barely any new games being released. People can't buy games that do not exist. Besides, why be worried about a minority when the majority would still be on board as long as you actually release games for the system. "Once consumers have a notion that 'this system is not for us', we have learned that it is extremely difficult to change their perceptions later," said Iwata. Logically, you would try to please the majority instead of focusing on a minority.
"Therefore, in promoting the Nintendo 3DS and the Wii U, we have announced that we would like 'width' and 'depth' to coexist. "With the Nintendo DS and the Wii, the approach of 'width' was well accepted by many people; however, what we did in terms of 'depth' was not satisfactory for some consumers. This time, we would like consumers to be satisfied in both aspects. "In order to do so, we started to work on the 'depth' aspect first, and the current and existing software you can see for the Nintendo 3DS is based on that idea. In the future, the approach will evolve," he continued.
This is blatant misinterpretation, because virtually nobody complained about a lack of depth in the DS library. It's just Iwata looking for justification to change Nintendo's strategy. Not to mention how terrible this strategy turned out to be for the 3DS. Nintendo posted their first annual loss since they entered the video game business. "Our approach for the Wii U is basically the same. By doing so continuously, we are expecting that the number of game users per household will increase and as the gaming population increases, we believe we can create a sustainable video game market." And here Iwata is threatening to repeat the same mistakes which is awful. There is no way to please everyone. But there's a way to piss everyone off: By trying to please everyone. There are certain market segments that Nintendo should surrender, because if they don't, they will hurt the rest of their business greatly. Iwata makes it sound like the Wii and DS were mistakes (which wasn't the case judging by financial data), but the real mistake was that Nintendo changed their strategy about a couple of years ago. Which is why they are in trouble now and the announcement that they'll continue down the same path certainly isn't good news. |
Thank you. Interesting. I understand better now.
You say "The year 2011 was mostly emptiness on Nintendo's part with barely any new games being released. People can't buy games that do not exist.". What do you think was the reason for the drought of Nintendo games in 2011?
You say, "There are certain market segments that Nintendo should surrender", which market segments should they surrender?
RolStoppable said:
The reason for the drought was Nintendo's misinterpretation. Someday late in 2009 or early 2010 they decided that it's time to move on to the next console, because they thought of the Wii as a mistake. So their development teams would finish their Wii games and then work on Wii U games to be prepared for a launch in 2012. The market segment Nintendo should definitely surrender are the self-proclaimed hardcore gamers which include the majority of video game journalists. Firstly, catering to these people would drive up the cost of Nintendo's console (needs more horsepower). Secondly, these people usually do not want to play games on a Nintendo system anyway, so it's wasted effort. Thirdly, these people do not want to share their console with someone else. They feel offended by the idea that someone other than them plays video games. Much of the hate the Wii got is because its message was one of equality, but at the same time this was the reason why the market loved the Wii. If you didn't play video games before or haven't done so in a long time, you weren't treated like a lesser human being. Instead you were welcome, even encouraged, to try it out. And as the Wii demonstrated, the hardcore gamers' approval isn't needed in the slightest to be highly successful. |
Okay but what about you? It may be a successful formula businesswise to ignore the self-proclaimed hardcore, but what conseuqneces would that have for your own taste in games? Wouldn't there be less games for the Wii U for you to enjoy?
RolStoppable said:
The reason for the drought was Nintendo's misinterpretation. Someday late in 2009 or early 2010 they decided that it's time to move on to the next console, because they thought of the Wii as a mistake. So their development teams would finish their Wii games and then work on Wii U games to be prepared for a launch in 2012. The market segment Nintendo should definitely surrender are the self-proclaimed hardcore gamers which include the majority of video game journalists. Firstly, catering to these people would drive up the cost of Nintendo's console (needs more horsepower). Secondly, these people usually do not want to play games on a Nintendo system anyway, so it's wasted effort. Thirdly, these people do not want to share their console with someone else. They feel offended by the idea that someone other than them plays video games. Much of the hate the Wii got is because its message was one of equality, but at the same time this was the reason why the market loved the Wii. If you didn't play video games before or haven't done so in a long time, you weren't treated like a lesser human being. Instead you were welcome, even encouraged, to try it out. And as the Wii demonstrated, the hardcore gamers' approval isn't needed in the slightest to be highly successful. |
I know you don't want me to talk to you, so you don't have to read this.
I believe your understanding of his claim is in itself a misinterpretation, but please hear me out before turning off your "earphones"...
"However, we could not adequately create the situation that such new consumers played games frequently or for long, consistent periods. As a result, we could not sustain a good level of profit."
The few points I'll offer you are these:
1) The gamers which made Wii successful bought a few games, in very high quantities (from what I remember). This could be attributed to the nature of the mainstream market. They flock to titles (COD, MK, etc.) This you can easily refute if you have the data to support a counter-argument. Please use 2009 and earlier data if you choose to do that.
1 corollary) For that reason, many games did not get the attention they deserved, since the big titles hogged the spotlight.
2) If you remember correctly, 3rd parties were supporting both markets, but were much more successful on the "skilled gamer" market. The reason is likely strongly bound to point 1, but also bound to the desire of 3rd parties to make games for "skilled gamers". If they want that, there is so much you can do to change their minds. Sometimes you have to work with what you have. (Maybe his sentence is relative to the "skilled gamer" market)
3) "Skilled gamers" amounted to almost half the console sales this gen, and a very large amount of "skilled gamer" software. What does that tell us about lost opportunity and marketshare? (Again, maybe his sentence is relative to the "skilled gamer" market)
4) By definition, casual players and non-gamers are gamers who don't have the time to dedicate the hours of gameplay a solid business usually expects. Hence the large volume of sales for select titles. The same can't be said about the other market. Fewer sales, but much more regular.
Is it possible that both you and Iwata could be right at the same time? Maybe he isn't saying that he did the right thing to discontinue Wii support. Maybe he's just saying he aborted the Wii strategy earlier than expected to kick-start the new strategy, which is one that caters to both Core and Casual, enjoying profits from both markets at once. Since the casual only need a select number of evergreen titles (by nature), there should be no problem for Nintendo to allocate resources accordingly. Add to this fact that casual games generally require less development expense... You get the idea.
I understand where you're coming from, I just think you're reading into what he's saying that which he isn't, given the quote.
And I don't expect you to reply, don't worry.
These people don't give a shit about your products, yet you're gonig to try to serve them first. How many more losses does this freaking company have take until they realise who their real customers are?
Does anybody here remember Reggie saying the word UTOPIA at last year's E3? Does this man actually know what that word mean?
How can a company's president aim for a freaking UTOPIA? Can anybody please explain that to me?
| Valdney said: These people don't give a shit about your products, yet you're gonig to try to serve them first. How many more losses does this freaking company have take until they realise who their real customers are? |
I think you'd be surprised how many playstation and xbox fans are ex-nintendo fans or Nintendo fans at heart. If Nintendo were to cater to them, this could be wrong, but I believe some would bite, some even give Nintendo some respect for reaching out.
Another thing, the title is misleading. It isn't Core first, Casual second in order of priority. It's in order of sequence.
Nintendo will begin by securing the core year 1, and move onto the casual market afterwards. I goes in line with what he said.
The reason:
"Moreover, regrettably, what we prioritised in order to reach out to the new audience was a bit too far from what we prioritised for those who play games as their hobby. Consequently, we presume some people felt that the Wii was not a game system for them or they were not willing to play with the Wii even though some compelling games had been released."
The alienation of the core by over-emphasis on the casual.
The importance of image from the get-go:
"Once consumers have a notion that “this system is not for us,” we have learned that it is extremely difficult to change their perceptions later. Therefore, in promoting the Nintendo 3DS and the Wii U, we have announced that we would like “width” and “depth” to coexist."
Here, he's clearly referring to the hobby gamers when he uses the pronoun "us". So, it's a question of order. He first wants to secure the hobbyists, and avoid alienating them (which they succeeded in with the 3DS). Once that's done, he will go after the casual more aggressively. Mind you he will target the casual from the get-go, just less aggressively at first. That's what he means by evolution.
I like the strategy, and I understand the concerns "Jack of all trades, ace of none". But given the low cost of developing casual games, a constant influx of such games shouldn't be too far fetched. As long as their core outreach doesn't hinder the minimum requirements for casual satisfaction, then the conquest of the core is a go!
RolStoppable said:
The reason for the drought was Nintendo's misinterpretation. Someday late in 2009 or early 2010 they decided that it's time to move on to the next console, because they thought of the Wii as a mistake. So their development teams would finish their Wii games and then work on Wii U games to be prepared for a launch in 2012. The market segment Nintendo should definitely surrender are the self-proclaimed hardcore gamers which include the majority of video game journalists. Firstly, catering to these people would drive up the cost of Nintendo's console (needs more horsepower). Secondly, these people usually do not want to play games on a Nintendo system anyway, so it's wasted effort. Thirdly, these people do not want to share their console with someone else. They feel offended by the idea that someone other than them plays video games. Much of the hate the Wii got is because its message was one of equality, but at the same time this was the reason why the market loved the Wii. If you didn't play video games before or haven't done so in a long time, you weren't treated like a lesser human being. Instead you were welcome, even encouraged, to try it out. And as the Wii demonstrated, the hardcore gamers' approval isn't needed in the slightest to be highly successful. |
VS
Since September 23, 1889.
| KeptoKnight said: Since September 23, 1889. |
Nah, they've made their share of mistakes. Rol's point is valid, it's just taken to the extreme.
A more balanced view would be interesting to hear.
He sees Skyward Sword as taking away any possibility of attracting the casual because it's too resource intensive.
But the question remains, is Nintendo able to offer Skyward Sword and everything the casual need? I would think yes, but he thinks not. How much can you spoil the casual really, and how much is overkill? These are questions he doesn't address.
Possibly, some of us haven't been quick enough to ask him...
I hear you, but whatever the conclusion might be, we can be sure Nintendo has thought of all this before hand. Personally, all we can do is trust what plan they have for the future. Everyone is and will always be a critic regardless of the circumstances.
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