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Forums - Politics - The American Right and Anti-Intellectualism

lordmandeep said:
Frankly the Libertarians in the US who are the only decent people left.


Democrat supports want to see Big govt, Republican supports want govt to regulate morality.

I'd actually argue your only half right... in that both groups want to do both.

 

Democrats and Republicans both want Big government and to regulate morality.  They just want government big in different areas and have different morals they want to regulate.

Well outside the moral issues they tend to want to regualte together like banning violent videogames.



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Mr Khan said:

I would like to broker a discussion on the American right wing and its peculiar hostility towards intellectualism. While there is a certain emphasis on values that is necessary for the American left to function (namely the value of giving the disadvantaged a leg up rather than letting the market sort things out), i do feel that the left wing in America is far more amicable to science and the pursuit of knowledge as a moral good than the right, where the pursuit of knowledge is viewed with suspicion at best, despite the fact that the party leadership on the Right is all reasonably well-educated, they tend to propound education as elitist (Rick Santorum, who was once a lawyer meaning he went through college and law school, has implied that college education is elitist).

It seems like the Right, in its belief that government is bad, has absorbed the idea that people who know about government are bad, and would be less fit governors, with the growing myth that the self-made outsider is better than the experienced civil servant, which one sees with the Republican Party's brief flirtation with Herman Cain, a man with zero political experience (evidenced by his ill-conceived 9-9-9 plan), as being superior to Washington types.

You see it also in the rejection of fairly well-established scientific facts as well: being homosexual isn't a choice, human activity is causing climate change, and yes, humanity evolved from lower life forms. Money flowing from right-wing think tanks fund entire branches of psuedoscience to try to disprove these things, but what is more important is that the rank-and-file conservatives pick up the ideas that various branches of science are false and take them in as core conviction, and then look with suspicion on anyone who takes these facts for what they are: proven as far as empirical science is able.

The right embraces mythology more frequently than the left, which is evidenced by the number of falsehoods that are constantly spun out by the party compared to the falsehoods that were embraced by the left (9/11 truthers being a wacko movement that the left wing flirted with, but importantly a movement that was fairly conclusively silenced by science). At the same time as 9/11 truthing was defeated as evidence emerged, no amount of evidence can seem to shut up the Obama Birthers, or the 89% of Mississippi residents who think Obama isn't Christian, or hell, the large part of the Republican base that thinks Mitt Romney isn't Christian (of course, these are the kind of people that would likely say Rick Santorum isn't Christian either. He's "Catholic.") They know what they know, and no-one better qualified than them is going to interfere with their conviction using something as trivial as fact.

The last point i think is important, it's that Conviction > Objectivity on the right. You don't need to know anything about a given topic, you simply need to have faith, to have conviction, similar to George W. Bush who "knew" that going into Iraq was the right thing to do, or similar to Sarah Palin, who (it is increasingly clear from people who worked with the woman) knew dangerously little about anything and seemed to be damn proud of it, and when people point out that this is bad, as it is, she and her supporters accuse them of being elitist. Rick Perry and Michelle Bachmann openly embraced revisionist history on a few points, and the Texas Board of Education tried to write out Thomas Jefferson for being too radical. Money shouldn't be going to public education anyway, as its dangerous letting the state teach our children (and treasonous to ever think of giving the people entrusted with that responsibility more money), because what is the value of our children knowing anything more than how to hold a job? While the American left may try to dilute reality in the drive for political correctness, they never veer away from objective fact, merely from subjective labeling of objective fact. For Republicans, meanwhile, it's cool to be dumb, and watching the current Republican Primaries is watching an intellectual race to the bottom. Perhaps next we'll see Romney, Gingrich, and Santorum on stage smacking themselves over the head with hammers, to prove that they can kill more brain-cells than the others and thus become less of a dangerous, pointy-headed intellectual.

great read i bolded and put in italic the parts i found most interesting, but still a great read. i did allot of laughing aswell, and agree with near all of it.



Kasz216 said:

Well outside the moral issues they tend to want to regualte together like banning violent videogames.

Even there, it seems to be mostly Democrats who lead these initatives. Funny that no one ever seems to remember that it was Tipper Gore who led the PMRC or that Hillary Clinton who was one of the most enthusiastic anti-violent video game activists. And the entire reason that no one remembers this is because of the media image of Republicans as being squares while Democrats are the "cool" party.

Republicans do suck, but Democrats are the absolute drizzling shits on every possible level.



lordmandeep said:
Frankly the Libertarians in the US who are the only decent people left.

Decent, quite =P



I describe myself as a little dose of toxic masculinity.

badgenome said:

Jumpin said:

The US just needs to get rid of the libertarians.

You know who else just wanted to get rid of people...

Nice edit. Here's another hint: they already do ignore us. That's the problem.

Well, that's generally because Libretarian style economics doesn't rely on dubious statistical models.  This is a really good opinion piece on the problems of modern economics.

http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/2011/07/27/economist-heal-thyself/


It's funny, when I was in Consumer Psychology class my teacher said "We're going to teach you some older statistical models and beliefs on peoples behavior that aren't really taught much anymore and are less "scientific", and just used in the buisness world"

Of course I raised my hand and said... "If there are newer models, why do buisnesses use the older ones that are less scientific."

His response...

"Well we've just found these work better at actually predicting what people are going to do with there money."

 

Academic Economics tends to be more statistically rigorous ... yet worse at predicted actual outcomes.  Generally because they're looking for a permanent X+Y=Z theory that doesn't exist... like a physicist tries to calculate the formula for how dark energy effects matter.


Ironically leaving academic economists pretty much useless.



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Jumpin said:
lordmandeep said:
Frankly the Libertarians in the US who are the only decent people left.

Decent, quite =P

Wow, what a well thought out counterpoint. I guess the left really is intellectually superior. By all means, let's listen to these people instead.



"How GWB is handling his job"

You need to get some new stats, brah.



 

More "decent" libertarians. I suppoose this stomping women is an alright past time when you're not out shooting guns into the air like wild madmen.



I describe myself as a little dose of toxic masculinity.

Kasz216 said:

Well, that's generally because Libretarian style economics doesn't rely on dubious statistical models.  This is a really good opinion piece on the problems of modern economics.

http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/2011/07/27/economist-heal-thyself/

I think it's in part because of the fundamental humility of libertarianism, and partially because of the fundamental arrogance of academics. People in the real world try to make sense of the world around them, and people who fuck up in the real world tend to lose their jobs. Meanwhile, people in the academic bubble can spew whatever fucking nonsense they want with little to no repercussions, and if their students don't regurgitate exactly what they're taught, they're in a position to punish them for it. Left wing economists are especially bad at bemoaning how capitalism doesn't value humanity while at the same time taking the human element out of their economic models.



Well, Mitt Romney isn't a Christian.  He's a Mormon.  If you knew anything about what Mormons believed, you would immediately realize just how un-Christian they are.  Nothing against Romney, I'm just stating fact.  Mormons simply cannot be considered Christians.  They are radically different.