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Forums - Politics - The Racist history of the Republican Party

Kasz216 on 15 March 2012
Rath said:
Allfreedom99 said:
Mr Puggsly said:
Rath said:
Allfreedom99 said:
 

still the life in the womb is a human being in development no matter any way you try to look at it. and by terminating that life one is ending a human life. So when it comes to abortion we always hear "oh its up to the mother to have the right to choose."

Its like saying, "since this human being does not yet have a concious and therefore does not have a voice to claim it has a right to live then we can justify killing it."

What real justification is there for ending the life of a human being in the womb? can you name one?


There are no convincing arguments that a fetus is a person, therefore there is no convincing reason why women should not be allowed to have abortions.

Well a fetus has a heart beat after just a few weeks so it appears to me an abortion kills something that's alive. Now is it a person... well that seems like a subjective argument.

My gut says abortions are technically murder. However, we don't have a solution to really deal with all these unwanted children. So I'm only pro choice because nobody wants these children.

So if abortion is indeed ending a human being's life and taking away their individual right to live can be defined as murder then why justify doing it because the mother dosn't want that individual when they are birthed? Why not give the child up for adoption instead of taking away that individual's right to live?

@Kasz. The definition of a planet is based on rigid parameters - it has to have its shape defined by gravity and it has to have cleared its orbit. 'I think therefore I am' is not a rigid scientific statement, it's a philisophical one.

 

@Kasz again. A newborn has a HUGELY more developed brain that a fetus at say ~25 weeks.

Sceintific personhood = consiousness.  That's very rigid...

As for the brain... not really, 25 weeks was a really unfortunate time to pick... because... it's not hugely more developed.  It grows sure, but at around 23 weeks the development of the brain is about done, and it's all about just growing...

and if your using growing as your benchmark, a newborns brain is 1/4th that of a full human brain.

Also, what I actually don't see is your actual stance on abortion.

Clearly you are for it... but at what week cutoff wise... and why?

Does the cutoff week change if the baby is mentally impaired or has some sort of genetic disease?

 



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Kasz216 on 15 March 2012
KungKras said:
Kasz216 said:
KungKras said:
Kasz216 said:
KungKras said:
Allfreedom99 said:
NinjaguyDan said:

The Republicans are the champions of freedom?

The freedom to marry who you want?

The freedom to use a safe, natural substance, either medicinally or recreationally?

The freedom for a woman to make her own reproductive decisions?

 

Or are you trying to feed me some bullshit?

By that last statement if you mean contraceptives , I have not heard any elected republican official try to ban contraceptives. That is a ridiculous argument ginned up by leftists to try to make it sound like elected officials on the right wants to ban contraceptives. I have never seen them advocating for that.

If by that statement you are also meaning abortion then I have a question for you:  When does that life inside the mothers womb become a human?

It becomes a human when the brain is developed enough to support some kind of conciousness.

So... sometime after birth then.

Are you saying newborn babies do not have a conciousness?

Not anymore then the last few weeks of an allowed abortion.

And less so then animals we routinly slaughter for food etc.

I do think a newborn has more brain power than say, a cow.

Anyways, I think that as soon as activity starts in the brain of the fetus, it becomes a human being, because it gains a human conciousness.

Your either underestimating cows or overestimating babies.

Cows are atleast as smart as dogs... and dogs are functionally at about a 6-12 month month old baby's intellegence.

Babies don't even learn cause and effect relationships until about month 3.  Pretty much all animals grasp cause and effect.



Rath on 15 March 2012
Kasz216 said:

Sceintific personhood = consiousness.  That's very rigid...

As for the brain... not really, 25 weeks was a really unfortunate time to pick... because... it's not hugely more developed.  It grows sure, but at around 23 weeks the development of the brain is about done, and it's all about just growing...

and if your using growing as your benchmark, a newborns brain is 1/4th that of a full human brain.

Also, what I actually don't see is your actual stance on abortion.

Clearly you are for it... but at what week cutoff wise... and why?

Does the cutoff week change if the baby is mentally impaired or has some sort of genetic disease?

 

Several key connections in the brain don't develop until after the 25th week, perhaps most importantly the connections required for sensory input (Thalmic? Something like that). For that reason I think a reasonable cut-off is probably about then - if a country defined the legal limit to be anywhere in the 22-26 week range I'd be pretty ok with that.

As for mentally impaired or genetic disease, that's a tricky ethical question which I don't have an answer to at the moment =P I'd have to think about it quite a bit.

Also I do not believe that your definition of personhood is scientific (or that there is a scientific one) but I get the feeling we're not going to be able to agree on this one =P



KungKras on 15 March 2012
Kasz216 said:
KungKras said:
Kasz216 said:
KungKras said:
Kasz216 said:
KungKras said:
Allfreedom99 said:
NinjaguyDan said:

The Republicans are the champions of freedom?

The freedom to marry who you want?

The freedom to use a safe, natural substance, either medicinally or recreationally?

The freedom for a woman to make her own reproductive decisions?

 

Or are you trying to feed me some bullshit?

By that last statement if you mean contraceptives , I have not heard any elected republican official try to ban contraceptives. That is a ridiculous argument ginned up by leftists to try to make it sound like elected officials on the right wants to ban contraceptives. I have never seen them advocating for that.

If by that statement you are also meaning abortion then I have a question for you:  When does that life inside the mothers womb become a human?

It becomes a human when the brain is developed enough to support some kind of conciousness.

So... sometime after birth then.

Are you saying newborn babies do not have a conciousness?

Not anymore then the last few weeks of an allowed abortion.

And less so then animals we routinly slaughter for food etc.

I do think a newborn has more brain power than say, a cow.

Anyways, I think that as soon as activity starts in the brain of the fetus, it becomes a human being, because it gains a human conciousness.

Your either underestimating cows or overestimating babies.

Cows are atleast as smart as dogs... and dogs are functionally at about a 6-12 month month old baby's intellegence.

Babies don't even learn cause and effect relationships until about month 3.  Pretty much all animals grasp cause and effect.

I see, I didn't know newborn intelligence was that undeveloped. I just figured it took a while for a blank mind to adapt to the world. But still, they are concious, and probably have been for a while before birth as well.



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Mr Puggsly on 15 March 2012
Kasz216 said:

There is.

There are tons of people looking to adopt babys who can't due to low supply.

Seems counterintutive since there are tons of kids who go unadopted, but the truth is...

people want babies.  Any Baby put up for adoption now adays is readily snapped up... and babies are in such short supply that we litteraly import them... and many more would be imported if not for strict laws in regards to it.

It's just... once a kid hits 2 or so... he's considered "Damaged goods".   Already has the smell of someone else on it... or something I don't know, i don't want kids so I really don't get the mindset.

Right, people want babies. But there are tons of children waiting to be adopted.

The situation would be even worse without abortions.



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Mr Puggsly on 15 March 2012
Rath said:
Allfreedom99 said:

So if abortion is indeed ending a human being's life and taking away their individual right to live can be defined as murder then why justify doing it because the mother dosn't want that individual when they are birthed? Why not give the child up for adoption instead of taking away that individual's right to live?

Here we get into the difference between 'human life' and a 'person'. Ending a fetus is not murder if it is not considered a person.

Well fetuses are alive and human. So you can't really convince me its not a person.

For the record, I'm pro choice. But I'm not going to try and convince myself that its not a person just so I can sleep better.



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Rath on 15 March 2012
Mr Puggsly said:
Rath said:
Allfreedom99 said:

So if abortion is indeed ending a human being's life and taking away their individual right to live can be defined as murder then why justify doing it because the mother dosn't want that individual when they are birthed? Why not give the child up for adoption instead of taking away that individual's right to live?

Here we get into the difference between 'human life' and a 'person'. Ending a fetus is not murder if it is not considered a person.

Well fetuses are alive and human. So you can't really convince me its not a person.

For the record, I'm pro choice. But I'm not going to try and convince myself that its not a person just so I can sleep better.


I'm not trying to convince myself, those are my honestly held beliefs



spaceguy on 15 March 2012

Thanks!!

All my friends and I are going to vote Progressive. Which the republicans are not unless you count Abraham Lincoln but back then the democrates where to the right and the Republicans where to the left. So mostly democrates and independents.

So bigot, racists, homophobic, sexists, greedy, wall st. corporately owned Republican Party. Now that you said it, yea sounds right. Thanks for pushing me more to the left. LOL



lordmandeep on 15 March 2012

However suggesting something is alive only 9 months latter is silly.

I am Pro Choice but only first 3-4 months only, Late terms should be banned only in case of life and death.

Telling me anything that is capable of kicking a mothers stomach is not living,is just not a morally defensible position.



Chris Hu on 15 March 2012

The whole video falls apart at the end when he tries to claim MLK Jr was a republican, which is totally untrue by the time of his death he was the total opposite of both the republican and democratic party. He became a radical socialist towards the end and his dangerous view led to his assassination. Before he died he was planning a poor peoples march on Washington this would not only pissed off both political parties but would have shed a poor light on the US all around the world.