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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Pachter: "Wii U won't save Nintendo, phones took 35% of the market"

Ail on 27 February 2012
archbrix said:
leper-apostle said:
archbrix said:
leper-apostle said:
archbrix said:
Squilliam said:
Nintendo's luck ran out. Simply the same reason why Sony fell as well, there is no manifest destiny in the console or handheld market and a large part of the great success they both had previously is simply good fortune.

Wrong, except for, "there is no manifest destiny in the console or handheld market".

Nintendo's dominance in the handheld market has been due to appealing to what the market wanted.

Sony fell because of a chain of bad decisions.

Microsoft excelled because of a chain of great decisions.

Almost nothing to do with luck in all cases...

Sony fell? 80 million and 35% market share their first try = falling? LOL.

 

The writing is on the wall for N, people won't admit it but it is, we'll see in a few years, pachter is not the only one seeing it.

 

 

Nintendo lost core gamers ages ago, releasing the wii-u wont change that, those people will just play on their ps3's and xbox's until ps4 and Xbox 720 come out. 

The fact that Squilliam used the term "fell" (as in, failed to accomplish what they had prior) and referred to consoles as well, lead me to assume that he was talking about the PS3; in which they did fall.  Hard.

Lol, which writing would that be?  Pachter's nonsense or the fact that 3DS broke sales records at a time where smartphones are at their most prevalent to date?


The ps3 hardly fell, it was a major factor in bluray winning the format war, and has sold faster then the xbox 360, it just launched later.

The statement wasn't that the PS3 fell; it was that Sony fell with the PS3.  They've lost BILLIONS this gen, tons of marketshare and the console's sales pale in comparison to its predecessor.

And the PS3 was hardly the key integral factor of blu-ray's success.  That would be the fact that every single major movie studio except Universal was going with blu-ray, many (such as 20th Century Fox, Disney, etc) exclusively.

Sony lost billions this last 8 years because of their poor phone adventure with Erikson and because of their failing TV business, the gaming business as a whole is a small contributor in Sony overall results..



PS3-Xbox360 gap : 1.5 millions and going up in PS3 favor !

PS3-Wii gap : 20 millions and going down !

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archbrix on 27 February 2012
Ail said:
archbrix said

The statement wasn't that the PS3 fell; it was that Sony fell with the PS3.  They've lost BILLIONS this gen, tons of marketshare and the console's sales pale in comparison to its predecessor.

And the PS3 was hardly the key integral factor of blu-ray's success.  That would be the fact that every single major movie studio except Universal was going with blu-ray, many (such as 20th Century Fox, Disney, etc) exclusively.

Sony lost billions this last 8 years because of their poor phone adventure with Erikson and because of their failing TV business, the gaming business as a whole is a small contributor in Sony overall results..

3.5 Billion+ is hardly a "small contributor"...

Even more when you add the 1 Billion loss from 2010 (some of that was from Vaio losses), and the losses for 2011...

http://www.vg247.com/2009/10/30/sony-ps-division-has-lost-4-7-billion-since-launching-ps3/



leper-apostle on 27 February 2012
archbrix said:
leper-apostle said:
archbrix said:
leper-apostle said:
archbrix said:
Squilliam said:
Nintendo's luck ran out. Simply the same reason why Sony fell as well, there is no manifest destiny in the console or handheld market and a large part of the great success they both had previously is simply good fortune.

Wrong, except for, "there is no manifest destiny in the console or handheld market".

Nintendo's dominance in the handheld market has been due to appealing to what the market wanted.

Sony fell because of a chain of bad decisions.

Microsoft excelled because of a chain of great decisions.

Almost nothing to do with luck in all cases...

Sony fell? 80 million and 35% market share their first try = falling? LOL.

 

The writing is on the wall for N, people won't admit it but it is, we'll see in a few years, pachter is not the only one seeing it.

 

 

Nintendo lost core gamers ages ago, releasing the wii-u wont change that, those people will just play on their ps3's and xbox's until ps4 and Xbox 720 come out. 

The fact that Squilliam used the term "fell" (as in, failed to accomplish what they had prior) and referred to consoles as well, lead me to assume that he was talking about the PS3; in which they did fall.  Hard.

Lol, which writing would that be?  Pachter's nonsense or the fact that 3DS broke sales records at a time where smartphones are at their most prevalent to date?


The ps3 hardly fell, it was a major factor in bluray winning the format war, and has sold faster then the xbox 360, it just launched later.

The statement wasn't that the PS3 fell; it was that Sony fell with the PS3.  They've lost BILLIONS this gen, tons of marketshare and the console's sales pale in comparison to its predecessor.

And the PS3 was hardly the key integral factor of blu-ray's success.  That would be the fact that every single major movie studio except Universal was going with blu-ray, many (such as 20th Century Fox, Disney, etc) exclusively.

HUH? The reason the movie studios backed bluray was home penetration mainly due to the PS3......



archbrix on 28 February 2012
leper-apostle said:
archbrix said:
leper-apostle said


The ps3 hardly fell, it was a major factor in bluray winning the format war, and has sold faster then the xbox 360, it just launched later.

The statement wasn't that the PS3 fell; it was that Sony fell with the PS3.  They've lost BILLIONS this gen, tons of marketshare and the console's sales pale in comparison to its predecessor.

And the PS3 was hardly the key integral factor of blu-ray's success.  That would be the fact that every single major movie studio except Universal was going with blu-ray, many (such as 20th Century Fox, Disney, etc) exclusively.

HUH? The reason the movie studios backed bluray was home penetration mainly due to the PS3......

Lol, are you kidding?  Try doing some research...

In 2002, the "Blu-ray Disc Founders" launched, which included Sony (Pictures), 20th Century Fox, and electronics companies such as Panasonic, Pioneer, Samsung, LG, Philips, Sharp, Hitachi, Mitsubishi, etc.  Then in 2004 Dell and HP signed on as well.  It had far more support than HD DVD way earlier than the launch of the PS3.

Studios were either supporting both formats or Blu-ray exclusively before the PS3 ever launched.  Universal was the only major studio exclusively backing HD DVD.  Later in 2007, Paramount also signed over to HD DVD and Toshiba was the main company making HD DVD players, vs all of the other said companies.  Then at the beginning of 2008, Warner Bros put the final nail in the coffin for HD DVD by finally siding exclusively with blu-ray.

Sure, the PS3 was yet another factor, but "mainly due"?  Definitely not.



Ail on 28 February 2012
archbrix said:
Ail said:
archbrix said

The statement wasn't that the PS3 fell; it was that Sony fell with the PS3.  They've lost BILLIONS this gen, tons of marketshare and the console's sales pale in comparison to its predecessor.

And the PS3 was hardly the key integral factor of blu-ray's success.  That would be the fact that every single major movie studio except Universal was going with blu-ray, many (such as 20th Century Fox, Disney, etc) exclusively.

Sony lost billions this last 8 years because of their poor phone adventure with Erikson and because of their failing TV business, the gaming business as a whole is a small contributor in Sony overall results..

3.5 Billion+ is hardly a "small contributor"...

Even more when you add the 1 Billion loss from 2010 (some of that was from Vaio losses), and the losses for 2011...

http://www.vg247.com/2009/10/30/sony-ps-division-has-lost-4-7-billion-since-launching-ps3/

Sony's TV business alone is projected to have loss of around 220 billion yens this year. That's a little over 2.7 billion$.

I stand by what I said.........

As for your numbers they cover a lot more than the PS division. Don't quote gaming sites for financials, they always get it wrong...

The PS division by itself was profitable in 2011 and most likely is going to be in fiscal 2012, but individuals numbers are not provided anymore..



PS3-Xbox360 gap : 1.5 millions and going up in PS3 favor !

PS3-Wii gap : 20 millions and going down !

Around the Network
archbrix on 28 February 2012
Ail said:
archbrix said:
Ail said:
archbrix said

The statement wasn't that the PS3 fell; it was that Sony fell with the PS3.  They've lost BILLIONS this gen, tons of marketshare and the console's sales pale in comparison to its predecessor.

And the PS3 was hardly the key integral factor of blu-ray's success.  That would be the fact that every single major movie studio except Universal was going with blu-ray, many (such as 20th Century Fox, Disney, etc) exclusively.

Sony lost billions this last 8 years because of their poor phone adventure with Erikson and because of their failing TV business, the gaming business as a whole is a small contributor in Sony overall results..

3.5 Billion+ is hardly a "small contributor"...

Even more when you add the 1 Billion loss from 2010 (some of that was from Vaio losses), and the losses for 2011...

http://www.vg247.com/2009/10/30/sony-ps-division-has-lost-4-7-billion-since-launching-ps3/

Sony's TV business alone is projected to have loss of around 220 billion yens this year. That's a little over 2.7 billion$.

I stand by what I said.........

As do I...



Ail on 28 February 2012
archbrix said:
Ail said:
archbrix said:
Ail said:
archbrix said

The statement wasn't that the PS3 fell; it was that Sony fell with the PS3.  They've lost BILLIONS this gen, tons of marketshare and the console's sales pale in comparison to its predecessor.

And the PS3 was hardly the key integral factor of blu-ray's success.  That would be the fact that every single major movie studio except Universal was going with blu-ray, many (such as 20th Century Fox, Disney, etc) exclusively.

Sony lost billions this last 8 years because of their poor phone adventure with Erikson and because of their failing TV business, the gaming business as a whole is a small contributor in Sony overall results..

3.5 Billion+ is hardly a "small contributor"...

Even more when you add the 1 Billion loss from 2010 (some of that was from Vaio losses), and the losses for 2011...

http://www.vg247.com/2009/10/30/sony-ps-division-has-lost-4-7-billion-since-launching-ps3/

Sony's TV business alone is projected to have loss of around 220 billion yens this year. That's a little over 2.7 billion$.

I stand by what I said.........

As do I...


Those losses for 2011 you mention were profits of 429 million$ for the Vaio + PS division ;)



PS3-Xbox360 gap : 1.5 millions and going up in PS3 favor !

PS3-Wii gap : 20 millions and going down !

archbrix on 28 February 2012
Ail said:

Those losses for 2011 you mention were profits of 429 million$ for the Vaio + PS division ;)

Link?

Not saying you're lying, I just can't find it...



UncleScrooge on 28 February 2012
Squilliam said:

Actually what I'm saying is that you can't expect perfect performance from any company all the time. You can't simply say that Nintendo are losing X market and therefore it is all their fault, you have to also take into consideration the good performance of rivals. It is the exact same thing as not blaming Sony entirely for the better performance of Microsoft and especially Nintendo in the current generation, to do so would be disrespectful of Sony in that case and of Nintendo and Microsoft. Credit is due wherever you find good performance, so you can't absolutely say that Nintendo alone are 100% responsible for Nintendos performance. You have to take wider considerations into account.

I never said it is all their fault. I am totally aware smartphones eat into their market. Who would say such a stupid thing? What I said was that a lot of this is caused by Nintendo acting dumb over the last years. Just like that a lot of analysts talk and stuff people say on forums sounds like Nintendo is in 0% control of their sales and it is all "fate" or something which is plain stupid because you have to take into account that Nintendo of today is a very different company than Nintendo of 2005. It's actually pretty common for companies to get cocky once they see prolonged success. 

My observation is not simply based on "they are losing the mass market - it must be their faul".

UncleScrooge said:


You continue to post numbers but where is the proof these are actually connected? I can give you some nice "pirates are the reason for climate change" charts if you want (I actually can. My statistics prof collects that stuff like trading cards or something xD) And I think these numbers are very worrying just for different reasons.

What about Wii sales? Did the Wii also get killed by smartphones? Or maybe - just maybe - it was killed by Nintendo being unable to produce more mass market titles and focusing on the "hardcore" 3DS? No that can't be true... silly me.

Climate is a bad example as there are too many variables to consider such as the various natural climatic cycles. If in an expanding market one player remains stagnant or shrinks then you can give a strong argument that the increasing sales of a competitor have something to do with it. So whilst climate science is 9x% certain, you'd be picking at threads to argue a strong case against it.

I've got some other ones, haha. Pirates and climate is a classic. Anyways, the point here is the bolded part: "something to do with it". The way websites and analysts act makes it seem like competitors are responsible for 100% of Nintendo's lost sales. I maintain my stance that a good chunk of that is Nintendo's fault. Not all of it - again I'm not that naive. But quite a chunk of it.

I guess in the end we'll meet somewhere in the middle. Of course you don't think Nintendo's competitors are causing 100% of their recent downfall. And of course I don't think Nintendo is responsible for it all alone.

 





Ail on 28 February 2012
archbrix said:
Ail said:

Those losses for 2011 you mention were profits of 429 million$ for the Vaio + PS division ;)

Link?

Not saying you're lying, I just can't find it...

http://www.sony.net/SonyInfo/IR/financial/fr/10q4_sony.pdf 

look at the networked products and services section.( page 4-5)



PS3-Xbox360 gap : 1.5 millions and going up in PS3 favor !

PS3-Wii gap : 20 millions and going down !