By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - Sony - Sony: We Should Probably Develop Less Games

happydolphin said:
pezus said:
happydolphin said:

It would be called poor management and unrealistic expectations, as well as possible pressure from studios to create content that is not selling or pressure from management (one or the other).

...or they're making small profits on them, whether straight through software sales or increased interest in the hardware. To your edit: That still doesn't say they're losing money on them, just that they could do better.

It supports the fact that there is a management issues when it comes to the games that are developed, their performance and the allocation of resources. :)

Not to mention, despite all the software, extras, etc... they will have NEVER made a dime back on the PS3.  Complete and total loss.  They will never dig themselves out of that hole.  And considering that the rest of their company doesn't make money either... it's a big problem.  It is a poorly run company.  This is what happens when you have a poorly run company.  Bad management.  It's like a poorly run government.  Money is being allocated, but no one knows where it's really going.  They SHOULD make more money than they do... they SHOULD make money on certain games... but they don't. 

Also, Resistance should hit 2 mill?  Even though it's barely past 1?  I mean cmon... this guy is drowning in the koolaid. 



BOOM!  FACE KICK!

Around the Network
Jexy said:
happydolphin said:

It supports the fact that there is a management issues when it comes to the games that are developed, their performance and the allocation of resources. :)

Not to mention, despite all the software, extras, etc... they will have NEVER made a dime back on the PS3.  Complete and total loss.  They will never dig themselves out of that hole.  And considering that the rest of their company doesn't make money either... it's a big problem.  It is a poorly run company.  This is what happens when you have a poorly run company.  Bad management.  It's like a poorly run government.  Money is being allocated, but no one knows where it's really going.  They SHOULD make more money than they do... they SHOULD make money on certain games... but they don't. 

Also, Resistance should hit 2 mill?  Even though it's barely past 1?  I mean cmon... this guy is drowning in the koolaid. 

haha :) you made me laugh. Though I love these guys, denial is surprisingly high in this thread. Meanwhile longtime SEGA fans are yelling "icerberg!", but they are still asking for more gamez... At least Sony's management admits there's a problem. A full series entry like Resistance 2 cannot possibly be profitable at 1million some sales... I would be really shocked if that were true. At absolute best that's 60million in revenue, who knows the total cost of dev, localization and marketing this game involved? (rhetorical)



Jexy said:
happydolphin said:
pezus said:
happydolphin said:

It would be called poor management and unrealistic expectations, as well as possible pressure from studios to create content that is not selling or pressure from management (one or the other).

...or they're making small profits on them, whether straight through software sales or increased interest in the hardware. To your edit: That still doesn't say they're losing money on them, just that they could do better.

It supports the fact that there is a management issues when it comes to the games that are developed, their performance and the allocation of resources. :)

Not to mention, despite all the software, extras, etc... they will have NEVER made a dime back on the PS3.  Complete and total loss.  They will never dig themselves out of that hole.  And considering that the rest of their company doesn't make money either... it's a big problem.  It is a poorly run company.  This is what happens when you have a poorly run company.  Bad management.  It's like a poorly run government.  Money is being allocated, but no one knows where it's really going.  They SHOULD make more money than they do... they SHOULD make money on certain games... but they don't. 

Also, Resistance should hit 2 mill?  Even though it's barely past 1?  I mean cmon... this guy is drowning in the koolaid. 

omg!!!! it took less than 4 months for it to reach 1 million sales.

it could never reach 2 million in the next 3 years!!! obviously games dont sell after 4 months.

it will be well over 1.5 million by the end of the year, likely 1.75, it will eventually leg it out close to 2 million.



happydolphin said:
Jexy said:
happydolphin said:

It supports the fact that there is a management issues when it comes to the games that are developed, their performance and the allocation of resources. :)

Not to mention, despite all the software, extras, etc... they will have NEVER made a dime back on the PS3.  Complete and total loss.  They will never dig themselves out of that hole.  And considering that the rest of their company doesn't make money either... it's a big problem.  It is a poorly run company.  This is what happens when you have a poorly run company.  Bad management.  It's like a poorly run government.  Money is being allocated, but no one knows where it's really going.  They SHOULD make more money than they do... they SHOULD make money on certain games... but they don't. 

Also, Resistance should hit 2 mill?  Even though it's barely past 1?  I mean cmon... this guy is drowning in the koolaid. 

haha :) you made me laugh. Though I love these guys, denial is surprisingly high in this thread. Meanwhile longtime SEGA fans are yelling "icerberg!", but they are still asking for more gamez... At least Sony's management admits there's a problem. A full series entry like Resistance 2 cannot possibly be profitable at 1million some sales... I would be really shocked if that were true. At absolute best that's 60million in revenue, who knows the total cost of dev, localization and marketing this game involved? (rhetorical)

are you kidding me, you dont think 1 million sales can make a game like Resistance 3 profitable? jeeze, you guys act as if all games have to sell like 5 million. there used to be a time, when we considered 1 million a great feat. now it doesnt even make profit.

when a game like UNcharted can be made for under $25 million, im pretty sure a game like Resistance 3 (with almost no advertising) could be made for well under $25 million. i wouldnt be suprised if it cost around $15 million (FYI thats how much it cost to make Gears of War 1). So if you dont think 1 million sales can be profitable (not to mention, you guys seem to forget that the game is still selling... shocking i know, but its still bringing in revenue).

Since its a first party game, its safe to say Sony pockets ~$40 per game (no royalty fee, no $ going to 3rd party publisher). So that right there is $40 million. so if you seriously believe that Resistance 3 cost more than $40 million to develop and market, then we have absolutely no need to discuss this any further.



Jexy said:
Rpruett said:
Again,

The reason Sony consoles have always done well is variety in games. Games sell consoles right? Well having multitudes of games is how Sony has sold consoles. If you want the big flashy numbers that is great but ultimately that isn't what made Microsoft successful. Halo was on the first Xbox after all and that didn't stop it from being an ultimately abortion of a console.

It was a tremendous amount of third party support that Sony lost that shifted the paradigm in the favor of Microsoft. Which gave Microsoft and their weak lineup am multitude of variety in their titles.

Sony needs to continue making a wide range of titles but specifically focus their marketing efforts on the cream of the crop and let word of mouth effect their weaker titles. Killzone was an awesome game and I loved the multi-player but in retrospect they should have made it easier for the general public.

That isn't the sole reason they have done well.  Even tebow sees that.  I mean, Nintendo sold more and had the fewest games.  Microsoft sold just as much with fewer.  Sony has sold consoles because of technology I think.  The PS1 changed things completely.  The PS2 was a DVD player for millions.  The PS3 was a cheap blu-ray option for years.  I wouldn't even say games is the number one reason people buy a PS3.  Every single one of my friends who own a PS3 bought one because of the blu-ray player. 

With the majority of games being 3rd party now, and Sony having games of a similar genre competing against eachother, they only hurt themselves.  Clearly no one is buying a PS3 because they have exclusives that barely crack 1 mill.  Otherwise they would sell more!  Most of the people playing on a PS3 are playing multiplats anyway.  And others bought a PS3 because of their BIG name titles like Gran Turismo and Metal Gear.  And those were already well established.  Their only big success just for a PS3 is Uncharted.  I'm not sure how many people would buy a PS3 JUST for Uncharted though, but it is probably worth it to some consumers what with the great reviews.

You're right, they should focus their marketing on the cream of the crop, but they also need to cut the cord on the ones that don't sell well with or without marketing that they take a loss on.  Forget it with the sequels.  And keep in mind, they don't have money to spend.  Which means cuts have to come from somewhere, or they will just cut gaming out altogether. 

Yeah, well said. I bought PS3 just for MGS4, then came Uncharted 2,3 which kept me pretty much interested in the console and still the same for upcoming title the LAst of Us. I'm one of those who wish to buy a console which delivers quality stuff like Uncharted 3, Metal Gear, Gran Turismo and sadly couldn't find those for 360 and which kept me away.



Around the Network
pezus said:
^No, the yen and TV business is killing them. The gaming part of the company is probably one of the few that is profitable by now.


I don't have the time at the moment to go looking for it, but there was an excellent thread a few years back that looked at the total profits of the gaming divisions of Sony, Microsoft and Nintendo, and demonstrated that the only company that made money by being a console manufacturer was Nintendo ... The reason for this is that, while Sony and Microsoft have profitable years, their systems hadn't turned enough profit to compensate for the initial loss due to massive R&D and hardware losses.

While I wouldn't be surprised if Sony was turning an profit off of the sales of the PS3 and games now, I expect that they're taking on massive losses related to the R&D of the PS4 and the launch of the PS-Vita; and the division on the whole is probably not that profitable.

 

On a side note, this is one of the reasons why it actuall makes a lot of sense for Microsoft to be releasing their rumoured "undepowered" system in the next generation. If they can cut their R&D costs and produce a nearly-profitable system at launch and the next generation lasts nearly as long as this one they could see substantial profits in the next generation.



HappySqurriel said:
pezus said:
^No, the yen and TV business is killing them. The gaming part of the company is probably one of the few that is profitable by now.


I don't have the time at the moment to go looking for it, but there was an excellent thread a few years back that looked at the total profits of the gaming divisions of Sony, Microsoft and Nintendo, and demonstrated that the only company that made money by being a console manufacturer was Nintendo ... The reason for this is that, while Sony and Microsoft have profitable years, their systems hadn't turned enough profit to compensate for the initial loss due to massive R&D and hardware losses.

While I wouldn't be surprised if Sony was turning an profit off of the sales of the PS3 and games now, I expect that they're taking on massive losses related to the R&D of the PS4 and the launch of the PS-Vita; and the division on the whole is probably not that profitable.

 

On a side note, this is one of the reasons why it actuall makes a lot of sense for Microsoft to be releasing their rumoured "undepowered" system in the next generation. If they can cut their R&D costs and produce a nearly-profitable system at launch and the next generation lasts nearly as long as this one they could see substantial profits in the next generation.

This or this?



osamanobama said:

are you kidding me, you dont think 1 million sales can make a game like Resistance 3 profitable? jeeze, you guys act as if all games have to sell like 5 million. there used to be a time, when we considered 1 million a great feat. now it doesnt even make profit.

when a game like UNcharted can be made for under $25 million, im pretty sure a game like Resistance 3 (with almost no advertising) could be made for well under $25 million. i wouldnt be suprised if it cost around $15 million (FYI thats how much it cost to make Gears of War 1). So if you dont think 1 million sales can be profitable (not to mention, you guys seem to forget that the game is still selling... shocking i know, but its still bringing in revenue).

Since its a first party game, its safe to say Sony pockets ~$40 per game (no royalty fee, no $ going to 3rd party publisher). So that right there is $40 million. so if you seriously believe that Resistance 3 cost more than $40 million to develop and market, then we have absolutely no need to discuss this any further.

I honestly don't know, I'm just trying to bring sense to OP, what are you accomplishing really?

(EDIT: You don't know either honestly. It's not because UC is a better game that it cost more to make than KZ or Resistance. Some teams are mismanaged, so costs can swell beyond the quality of the game.)

Ultimately if you're right, then what all this means is that say 20Million$ profit off a game is not enough to cover all other losses Sony has suffered this gen. In other words, the game were expected to sell much more than they did given the money invested in them. They didn't. That's my understanding of it, think what you will.



HappySqurriel said:

I don't have the time at the moment to go looking for it, but there was an excellent thread a few years back that looked at the total profits of the gaming divisions of Sony, Microsoft and Nintendo, and demonstrated that the only company that made money by being a console manufacturer was Nintendo ... The reason for this is that, while Sony and Microsoft have profitable years, their systems hadn't turned enough profit to compensate for the initial loss due to massive R&D and hardware losses.

While I wouldn't be surprised if Sony was turning an profit off of the sales of the PS3 and games now, I expect that they're taking on massive losses related to the R&D of the PS4 and the launch of the PS-Vita; and the division on the whole is probably not that profitable.

 

On a side note, this is one of the reasons why it actuall makes a lot of sense for Microsoft to be releasing their rumoured "undepowered" system in the next generation. If they can cut their R&D costs and produce a nearly-profitable system at launch and the next generation lasts nearly as long as this one they could see substantial profits in the next generation.

In other words, the loss-leading strategy will no longer work for them from this point forward, the competition is too fierce. The Vita is not good news for them though, it's already a loss-leader. If the PS4 is loss-leader too, then they really need to trim the fat and leverage appealing AAA games like Uncharted + drop the other junk.



happydolphin said:
HappySqurriel said:

I don't have the time at the moment to go looking for it, but there was an excellent thread a few years back that looked at the total profits of the gaming divisions of Sony, Microsoft and Nintendo, and demonstrated that the only company that made money by being a console manufacturer was Nintendo ... The reason for this is that, while Sony and Microsoft have profitable years, their systems hadn't turned enough profit to compensate for the initial loss due to massive R&D and hardware losses.

While I wouldn't be surprised if Sony was turning an profit off of the sales of the PS3 and games now, I expect that they're taking on massive losses related to the R&D of the PS4 and the launch of the PS-Vita; and the division on the whole is probably not that profitable.

 

On a side note, this is one of the reasons why it actuall makes a lot of sense for Microsoft to be releasing their rumoured "undepowered" system in the next generation. If they can cut their R&D costs and produce a nearly-profitable system at launch and the next generation lasts nearly as long as this one they could see substantial profits in the next generation.

In other words, the loss-leading strategy will no longer work for them from this point forward, the competition is too fierce. The Vita is not good news for them though, it's already a loss-leader. If the PS4 is loss-leader too, then they really need to trim the fat and leverage appealing AAA games like Uncharted + drop the other junk.

loss leading? explain plz.

unfortunately Sony doesn't have that AAA title and will likely continue to struggle to find their next big(LBP,GT5,UC) ip. 

Sony has great partners but not strong ones, so if Sony can lock in a strong indie dev. somewhere in the future, then i can see a big tripleA title coming from Sony.

junk? you must mean ip that don't sell, cause junk is far from an accurate word to use in describing the ip in question.