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Forums - Microsoft Discussion - IGN: Xbox 720 Will Be Six Times as Powerful as Current Gen

D-Joe said:
Netyaroze said:
Just looked up some informations on the 6670 its significantly weaker then a 5770 a 2009 Mid range GPU. 60 Euros in 2011 that means 25 bucks in 2013. This cant be real, the AMD claims of Avatar like graphics on 720 seem like delusional comments from a mentally sick person. And how are they going to even reach the 6 times more power with a 6670 based GPU.

If this is true and Sony doesnt include some Kinect like gadget for every console sold. They could end up making the only next gen console. Third Party games wouldnt benefit too much if they are multiplat. but Sony games would be a league of its own.

Also MS seems to want to compete with Nintendo directly. I cant see MS succeed if Nintendo gets all the same multiplats in similar graphic.

i can sure 100% MS will not use 6670 right now

because it dosen't support DX11.1

DX11.1's features are not needed on console, they are mainly tools for developers for performance analysis, video decoding, large shader cache for future proofing and also some improvements to multi GPU support and also tablet/ARM stuff for windows 8. 

The next XBOX will use a custom subset of DX anyway just like the 360 did, the 360 version of DX even had features that weren't added to DX on PC until DX10.1 they design the API arround the hardware on a console not the hardware to the API spec.



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zarx said:
D-Joe said:
Netyaroze said:
Just looked up some informations on the 6670 its significantly weaker then a 5770 a 2009 Mid range GPU. 60 Euros in 2011 that means 25 bucks in 2013. This cant be real, the AMD claims of Avatar like graphics on 720 seem like delusional comments from a mentally sick person. And how are they going to even reach the 6 times more power with a 6670 based GPU.

If this is true and Sony doesnt include some Kinect like gadget for every console sold. They could end up making the only next gen console. Third Party games wouldnt benefit too much if they are multiplat. but Sony games would be a league of its own.

Also MS seems to want to compete with Nintendo directly. I cant see MS succeed if Nintendo gets all the same multiplats in similar graphic.

i can sure 100% MS will not use 6670 right now

because it dosen't support DX11.1

DX11.1's features are not needed on console, they are mainly tools for developers for performance analysis, video decoding, large shader cache for future proofing and also some improvements to multi GPU support and also tablet/ARM stuff for windows 8. 

The next XBOX will use a custom subset of DX anyway just like the 360 did, the 360 version of DX even had features that weren't added to DX on PC until DX10.1 they design the API arround the hardware on a console not the hardware to the API spec.

just mean it won't use 6670



Summary: “Avatar was rendered on supercomputers”  Yes, I realize that, but they are not rendering at near the resolution of Avatar at 1080p.

And since the 4K TV's are coming out, and 1440p monitors are already out, and have been for a couple of years.  It would be sad to have a consol that is already rather dated before it even his it's first major price break.

Not too many people at 720P TV’s when the Xbox 360 came out. Yes they were out, but more of an ‘elite’ TV, like the 4K will be in a few years.  And all the X360 games are developed at 720p.

Look - I'm not saying that they Xbox 720 will have 'Cameron’s Avatar' level graphics.  Although, being rendered several years ago, with ‘Moore’s Law’ things have improved much since that time.  And the Xbox 360 is equivalent of a super computer less than two decades ago.  And if it comes out in 2013 that’s nearly 5 years since Avatar was rendered.

 I'm just point out that there is plenty of room to improve 1080p if that's all it can do.  But there also to seems to be tradition that the target should be the new TV's coming out.



 

Really not sure I see any point of Consol over PC's since Kinect, Wii and other alternative ways to play have been abandoned. 

Top 50 'most fun' game list coming soon!

 

Tell me a funny joke!

Console game comparisons inevitable....guess sony can watch the early ones and will have to repeat the same mistake to put the higher technology of the two.....!! Ultra HD begins 720p-1080i-1080p-1440i-1440p......for the glimpse of 1440p...pls watch in original quality http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A6tFrK1k6_0( monitors or screen supporting 1440p needed...I know it sucks big time for most of us nw)



Zappykins said:

Summary: “Avatar was rendered on supercomputers”  Yes, I realize that, but they are not rendering at near the resolution of Avatar at 1080p.

And since the 4K TV's are coming out, and 1440p monitors are already out, and have been for a couple of years.  It would be sad to have a consol that is already rather dated before it even his it's first major price break.

Not too many people at 720P TV’s when the Xbox 360 came out. Yes they were out, but more of an ‘elite’ TV, like the 4K will be in a few years.  And all the X360 games are developed at 720p.

Look - I'm not saying that they Xbox 720 will have 'Cameron’s Avatar' level graphics.  Although, being rendered several years ago, with ‘Moore’s Law’ things have improved much since that time.  And the Xbox 360 is equivalent of a super computer less than two decades ago.  And if it comes out in 2013 that’s nearly 5 years since Avatar was rendered.

 I'm just point out that there is plenty of room to improve 1080p if that's all it can do.  But there also to seems to be tradition that the target should be the new TV's coming out.


 4K TVs are nowhere close to being mainstream yet. The masses aren't in a rush to upgrade, especially when TV channels aren't going to start broadcasting in 4K anytime soon.

There is no tradition of targetting new TVs. One gen doesn't make it a tradition.

How the movie Avatar looks and moore's law have nothing to do with next gen graphics .

 

Since your expectations are so unrealistic and off the mark, expect to be dissapointed.



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Zappykins said:

Summary: “Avatar was rendered on supercomputers”  Yes, I realize that, but they are not rendering at near the resolution of Avatar at 1080p.

And since the 4K TV's are coming out, and 1440p monitors are already out, and have been for a couple of years.  It would be sad to have a consol that is already rather dated before it even his it's first major price break.

Not too many people at 720P TV’s when the Xbox 360 came out. Yes they were out, but more of an ‘elite’ TV, like the 4K will be in a few years.  And all the X360 games are developed at 720p.

Look - I'm not saying that they Xbox 720 will have 'Cameron’s Avatar' level graphics.  Although, being rendered several years ago, with ‘Moore’s Law’ things have improved much since that time.  And the Xbox 360 is equivalent of a super computer less than two decades ago.  And if it comes out in 2013 that’s nearly 5 years since Avatar was rendered.

 I'm just point out that there is plenty of room to improve 1080p if that's all it can do.  But there also to seems to be tradition that the target should be the new TV's coming out.


Sorry to break it to you but 1440 is not a TV resolution so won't be supported and 4k even for upscaled is not possible as HDMI 1.4 only supports up to 24fps for 4k video and I don't think many people will be happy if games were limited to 24fps... 1080p will be the max resolution next gen unless they have 2 HDMI ports which is just not going to happen. There is currently no HDMI spec planned that supports higher framerates so a final spec is several years off.

Well I guess Sony may try to push their 4k TVs via Display port and a good internal upscaller but I doubt it.

Nope 1080p will have to do for the next 7-11 years for consoles.



@TheVoxelman on twitter

Check out my hype threads: Cyberpunk, and The Witcher 3!

greenmedic88 said:
crissindahouse said:
Solid-Stark said:
Not sure why people are disappointed by "6x". Thats perfect for games at native 1080 with decent settings, not to mention a price of $350-$400.


i will pay some thousand dollar for one generation i would preferto pay 100 more for much better a.i., draw distance blablub

And on a similar sarcastic note, there's a name for the minority niche consumer willing to pay $1,000 for hardware to play games the way developers intended; they're called PC gamers. 

I guess it's all a question of bang for your buck, and whether or not the big 3 will make the right decisions in offering both a good range of processing power given today's TV tech, and a competitive price. I think the cube was a good yardstick to compare to. It was high-end, and it was affordable. That's all we're asking for really.



crissindahouse said:
greenmedic88 said:
crissindahouse said:
Solid-Stark said:
Not sure why people are disappointed by "6x". Thats perfect for games at native 1080 with decent settings, not to mention a price of $350-$400.


i will pay some thousand dollar for one generation i would preferto pay 100 more for much better a.i., draw distance blablub

And on a similar sarcastic note, there's a name for the minority niche consumer willing to pay $1,000 for hardware to play games the way developers intended; they're called PC gamers. 

the difference is that you get a much better gpu for 100 more (that's what microsoft could spend more so it's much better than you buying two gpu's with 100 difference) and for 100 less the gpu is a joke...the gpu costs 80 dollar nowadays what do you think what the production costs are and what they will be in a few years? 10 dollars or so? oh man yeah what a great gpu... it's not like you would need 1000 euro gpu's but the console should be at least not outdated one year before release wtf? and i still have no clue why everyone thinks the next 100 years the consoles have to have the same price which makes no sense and is not possible but yeah i had this discussion so many time with inflation, higher income and blabla it makes no sense to talk with console gamers about that.

do you know how much less it would be in 2013 to pay the same price than we had to pay in 2005? if the prices were too high in 2005/2006 for the new consoles than the same price in 2013 should be ok. for example i will get like 22% more loan than i got in 2005 if my boss will increase my loan the next time like he did the last years.

i mean if game prices will stay the same this will be even crazier. paying the same for games and console like one gen before? wow gaming is getting much cheaper then!

The price of gaming hardware has consistently gone down which falls in line with the entire tech industry's "get more for less" trend that is as consistent as Moore's Law. Last year's laptop may have the same price as this year's, but it will have better specs and adjusted for inflation, will actually cost less. 

Sony set the bar at $299 with the PS1 in 1994, and the Dreamcast set the bar shortly at $399 over ten years ago before dropping it back to $299 in an attempt to match the $299 PS2. MS stuck with the $399 price, offering a $299 option for the Xbox 360 and then Sony deviated wildly with a $599/499 price that didn't go over well with anyone even though with a price adjusted for inflation, it wasn't that much more than a $299 Playstation 1 back in 1994. 

It's already proven that the majority of consumers aren't willing to pay more than $299-399 for a gaming console, regardless of what else it does.

That leaves it up to the hardware designers/manufacturers to come up with new hardware using available technology (rather than paying for the R&D for all new technology) that can be sold at the same price as the previous models. Just going off the laptop analogy alone, it's not that difficult unless you're introducing some previously non-existing exclusive technology that was paid for by the company releasing the console. The R&D goes into optimization and customization of the existing technology and working out how all those components work together as an integrated design. 

So yes; gaming hardware is getting cheaper to produce as it always has. Software is where the real profits and revenue lie, same as always. Peripherals and controllers will remain big profit makers, same as always. And now platform producers also have online services as a major source of revenue and profits. 

So don't feel bad for asking more for less from any of the console manufacturers when it comes to hardware. That's just Moore's Law in effect. 



zarx said:

Sorry to break it to you but 1440 is not a TV resolution so won't be supported and 4k even for upscaled is not possible as HDMI 1.4 only supports up to 24fps for 4k video and I don't think many people will be happy if games were limited to 24fps... 1080p will be the max resolution next gen unless they have 2 HDMI ports which is just not going to happen. There is currently no HDMI spec planned that supports higher framerates so a final spec is several years off.

Well I guess Sony may try to push their 4k TVs via Display port and a good internal upscaller but I doubt it.

Nope 1080p will have to do for the next 7-11 years for consoles.

Plus, the 1080p TV standard isn't going anywhere until the broadcast standards change. Seeing as how they're currently set at 720p/1080i (and most people are keenly aware of how long that transition took), it's pretty hard to imagine broadcast standards changing anything before that 7-11 years you estimated. 

Realistically, we'd probably see consoles that can push out 1080p video to 2 or 3 HDTVs (separate signals, not mirrored) before seeing a console that utilizes a 4k display. And even then, I don't know who would have such a set up in their living room barring the same type of consumer currently gaming on a 2 or 3 monitor set up for PC games. 

Considering that the next generation of consoles probably won't even be able to render a stereoscopic 1080p signal at 60fps, talk of 4k display support seems even more pointless. 



zarx said:
Zappykins said:

Summary: “Avatar was rendered on supercomputers”  Yes, I realize that, but they are not rendering at near the resolution of Avatar at 1080p.

And since the 4K TV's are coming out, and 1440p monitors are already out, and have been for a couple of years.  It would be sad to have a consol that is already rather dated before it even his it's first major price break.

Not too many people at 720P TV’s when the Xbox 360 came out. Yes they were out, but more of an ‘elite’ TV, like the 4K will be in a few years.  And all the X360 games are developed at 720p.

Look - I'm not saying that they Xbox 720 will have 'Cameron’s Avatar' level graphics.  Although, being rendered several years ago, with ‘Moore’s Law’ things have improved much since that time.  And the Xbox 360 is equivalent of a super computer less than two decades ago.  And if it comes out in 2013 that’s nearly 5 years since Avatar was rendered.

 I'm just point out that there is plenty of room to improve 1080p if that's all it can do.  But there also to seems to be tradition that the target should be the new TV's coming out.


Sorry to break it to you but 1440 is not a TV resolution so won't be supported and 4k even for upscaled is not possible as HDMI 1.4 only supports up to 24fps for 4k video and I don't think many people will be happy if games were limited to 24fps... 1080p will be the max resolution next gen unless they have 2 HDMI ports which is just not going to happen. There is currently no HDMI spec planned that supports higher framerates so a final spec is several years off.

Well I guess Sony may try to push their 4k TVs via Display port and a good internal upscaller but I doubt it.

Nope 1080p will have to do for the next 7-11 years for consoles.

Well I disagree, 4k TVs  display outputs will have use in the new PS4 console extensively...1440p atleast is so likely happening...don't be surprised if there are provisions for higher ultra HD....1080p will be the standard resolution though for next 7-11 years...