Had I not written the qualifier "really", I would agree with you.

The sentence, specifically bolded, was supposed to say "beginning to show who", as in the nintendo franchises are so similar in sales, and have such few sequels, that for a platformer to get his fix, must buy others, resulting in dramatic overlap.

EDIT: Oh, and muramasa is so much more a platformer than an rpg. RPGs aren't simply defined as having ability levels. It's platforming with a touch of RPG. Also, LKS is a real-time strategy.

The point is right here:

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=4389537

Where is the counter?

In that response, cOrd created some of his own assumptions. He asked if I could do the same with the HD consoles. The answer is no, it's not possible, because many demographics are served equally. To represent it metaphorically, Mario and the other nintendo franchises are to Halo, what fitness games are to racing games, with the exception that HD also dominates JRPG, and third person adventure, and Western RPG, etc. The difference, clearly, is that nintendo's next demographic is not a traditional core, but expanded audience, where the opposite is true of the HD consoles.

The other problem cOrd had was that he said if wii fit buyers seldom buy other games (one of my points showing how small the core was) then attach rate would be absurdly high:

To which I responded:

"To those who are talking about attach rates:

360 is about 8 or 9

say people who bought wii fit bought wii fit, have wii sports, and possibly another fitness game. Like I said, the numbers aren't completely rigid, there is always bound to be some variability. But let's say those people do only own 2 games. 51M wii owners*6 attach rate = 306M 20M wii fit owners*2games=40M. 

266M games /31M owners =8.6 attach rate. And all of a sudden, wii attach rate makes sense with the other traditional console's attach rate."

This doesn't even factor in that you also get wii play with a second controller, but I was being generous with the statistics. The attach wouldn't be absurdly high in any respect.

Also, his point that "Wii fit only came out last year, I know it's a system seller, but that is pushing it", does not take into account owners who only own 1 or 2 games, and then bought wii fit and are content with that.

He also mentions that he doesn't understand the number because how could every single one buy SMG. Again, it's called overlapping of demographics. Though extremely muted.It's not that every core bought a copy, but that a great many did, since it's the only mario on the system at the time. People buy Nitnendo consoles for the first party. The same can't be said about the HD consoles, because the HD consoles have such a wide variety of traditional core game genres that 360 isn't all about master chief. The same can't be said about the wii's traditional core genres. 

No, it still sounds ignorant and is aggravating, especially given the sheers quantity of niche, quality titles you can find on Wii. As I said someone else jump in I don't like list wars. :S But I do apprciate your candor. Agree to disagree. Try to be less controversial if you can, you know it's a touchy point...

Impossible. DKCR versus NSMBWii:

Now what? Trad Nintendo Core = 5.45-ish or 24.14-ish? These two platformers performed way differently in sales...

Off to drink ,  enjoy the evening.

I already explained to you much earlier that you're not looking at traditional-core buying a traditional-core game. You're looking at lapsed gamers and nostalgia core buying a traditional core game (people who don't even game, or have very little interest until the nostalgia made them buy it).

Compare it to every single other wii platformer. You can't cling to one thing and call it support. The "many" is called the support. The singular is called the exception. And exceptions come with explanations, and I've just provided you with one.

I also have a wii with about 15 games. I have all the nintendo first party games, and most niche ones and I know from experience because I'm always looking up hidden gems, that there are barely any. LKS and muramasa are head and shoulders above any other genre entries on the system.

You're going with the latter because you have nothing else.

Oh wait...you'e just been trolling me...

How does this always happen? Man, you're either extremely good at this, or you're just saying it mockingly...fuck.

Oh well, evaluating the other consoles is impossible because a great portion of the gamers are all traditional core. It is easy to do on the wii because there is such a clear disparity between  the demographics. A racing fan on 360 might end up buying lots of the main titles as well. Another spot when you notice the difference on wii is that the games that sell a million or less are so amazingly scattershot, so you can easily see where the informed traditional core make purchases, the uninformed box-art buyers, and the word of mouth buyers (wii fit), 2 out of those 3 aren't traditional core. That proves my case one and for all. No objections. Verdict is guilty. Those are the only 3 demographics. Period.

1st 1. I never said never. I said closely related and "seldom". Funny how both you and c0rd don't understand the word.

1st 2. Nope, I just mean the regular trad-core who know that games are coming out. People that scour online are hardcore gamers. And wow, get this. Sony and 360 actually help fund their ad campaigns. When a multiplat comes out and it says "jump in" at the end? 100% funded by MS. Too bad Nintendo can't wrap its brain around actually encouraging competition. It's just too bad for you and your point that Nintendo goes out of their way to make sure the only games people know about on the wii are their own platformers. After the past 2 generations, you'd think Nintendo would realize this, unless they were for some reason doing it purposely??

2nd 1. I have the respectable ones. Seeing as how I never updated my games  on the profile (I was too embarrassed to admit I played with toys), I'll list them for you. DK, Galaxy, Kirby EY, NSMBWii, Metroid, Twilight Princess, Muramasa, Little Kings story, tiger woods, Smash, cave story, punch out, monster hunter...and I know I'm missing some others....endless ocean 2....silent hill....some naruto game I got as a shitty gift... granted I also have 3 other consoles and a pc, so, sorry that I only have 15+. Now see, my eclectic variety is because I scour for great games.  Those are their best games, that is a fact.

2nd 2. Eww, pikmin better than LKS? Now I knows you trollin'. but yes, rpg action sidescroller is a better term for muramasa.

And again, no, I'm not calling you any of those either. I'm saying that there are clear differences in the demographics. It's like milk. It comes in several types. Chocolate, skim, whole, 2%, 1%, soy.

Now people that drink 1 and skim might also drink 2%, as they are very similar. People who drink skim might not drink 2, since 2% is closer to whole the skim, which is very light, and chances are, people drink skim for health and so don't have too much chocolate milk. People drinking soy can't drink anything else.

It's the same. You can pick out the demographics when you put thought into it and say, this percentage are health conscious, that percentage  don't drink milk at all, this percentage don't care, etc etc. You COULD do the same with the HD consoles, but instead of saying "this many is the traditional core base" you'd have to say "this many are the shooter fans" etc. Because a majority of the genres are traditional core.

Rol made the winning point somewhere back there. If it weren't for the massive anti-Nintendo third-party conspiracy, Wii would have been a perfectly effective mainstream gaming console (this argument is still being derailed by the use of this word "core"), because third parties would have rounded out the edges Nintendo failed to fill

The industry conspiracy is the root of most of the Wii's problems

No.

I agree with you that the 3rd parties COULD have filled in where Nintendo didn't and also agree that they didn't for some reason. I think you're going too far to consider it a "conspiracy." I think it's mainly that a lot of the workforce just doesn't want to work on the Wii because it doesn't offer them what they want.

I personally wouldn't want to develop for the Wii if given a chance to develop for the HD twins because the Wii doesn't offer ways to advance my skills in the way I want to. Speaking as a game developer and engineer, most people like me want to keep advancing their careers and learning new things. The PS3 and 360 offer a different toolset to work with thant he Wii.  The tools and skills that some people have been nuturing and advancing (graphics, AI, "cutting edge" type stuff) for most of their careers could continue to grow if they work on the HD twins and wouldn't necessarily grow if they worked on the Wii. Thus, some engineers just flat out would rather work on the HD twins for the sake of their careers and knowledge.

No, I'm not saying the Wii doesn't offer learning and advancement of skill set in other skills. Developing for the Wii can definetly advance optimization, dealing with new input methods and drastic changes in game design but I would think these skills mainly fall to game developers and not engineers.

just my opinion of course, I could be talking out of my rear end.

I don't buy into the BS argument that the Wii lacks the technology to "inspire" game development because if that was the case there would be even less support for the DS, PSP, iPhone, and the HD consoles would have been abandoned by now for high end gaming PCs ...

The simple explaination for the support the Wii got is that third party publishers believed the Wii wasn't going to be particularly successful, redirected the vast majority of their quality development teams to games that would be released for the XBox 360, PS3 and PC, and then avoided creating any similar games for the Wii to protect their investment in the HD games; after all, if you've spent $40+ Million on a HD game (and over $100 Million including marketing) you probably don't want to spend an addition $10 Million to make a quality Wii game that will only detract from sales of your big budget game.