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Forums - Politics Discussion - Ron Paul - Wait, what?

Rpruett said:
Sirstopp said:
Vertigo-X said:
Sirstopp said:
If you really pay attention to Ron Paul though, he isn't that great. He's what you would say is a "front page" candidate. One that looks good on the surface, but go deeper into it and it's really ugly and something awful.

For example: http://campaignstops.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/12/29/ron-pauls-world/

Okay, I'm getting a good laugh at your post.

 

That NY Times BLOG REEKS of bias. I don't even care to read the whole thing because it seems like the blogger was putting his own spin on events... -_-

Are you kidding me? He was against the Civil Rights Act and would have voted against it if he had the chance because he says it "infringes on personal rights". He has actually said this stuff. Does that sound like a candidate that is sane? Ron Paul has shown time and time again that he is insane. He doesn't even believe in separation of Church and State.

He's 100% right.   Insane?    I'm against portions of the Civil Rights act (Just as Ron Paul is).  I think racism is prevalent as ever because of what I would call 'forced' differences within society.  That comes in terms of giving minorities benefits that (Whites for example) don't get.  It keeps race specifically showing as an *issue*  or *difference*.  When the reality is, I think most people of my generation don't really consider race an issue.  Yet Obama ran on that platform like he was personally getting hosed down by the police.   It's ludicrous.

It goes against the constitution, it really does.  Why should the government tell you how to operate your business or how much of what race you  need to hire?   Why do colleges allow lesser qualified minorities into college for a cheaper rate than their non minority counter parts?

And where does the government stop once they control how you operate your business?  They don't stop.  They want to keep reaching further.  Look at Rick Santorum, the guy wants to control what everybody does and thinks its the governments OBLIGATION and he came out strongly in Iowa.  Patriot Act,  Internet restriction acts.  It doesn't stop.  It just keeps going.   We have the highest incarceration rate in the world.  Aww shucks, I wonder why?    And we still have more 'CRIME' than a majority of places in the world.

Wake up.


On the contrary, I think you need to wake up. Rascism has been and still is very prevalent in the United States. You think I don't notice when public places have put up end rascism posters and people just go there and tear them down over and over? These people would in no way hire minorities over whites. No way. Black unemployment for teenagers is 41% last I checked. It still is very much needed. The reality is many of these southern and midwestern areas of the US are plagued by this. I live in one such town. It still is an issue. It's not ludicrous. Every generation goes through a civil rights movement, and then the generations afterwords are fighting off the stereotypes that come from that. The 60s were not that long ago, and it has not been enough time. 

 

You do realize regulation of the economy is needed right? Do you remember when they pumped cows full of TB so it would get fatter? Or when American cities used to look like what Beijing does today? I'm going to say no because those aren't around today due to the efforts of the government. Now for the latter part I would have to say I don't agree with that, they are compensating for shitty primary schools in areas with huge amounts of minorities. If anything, they need to fix those schools instead of compensating for it later. It really is quite a dumb idea.

 

That I have not completely decided for myself. I am still working out my political views. I'm finding myself to be a progressive and have realized the risks of the deregulated world we live in now. Now the examples you have stated are poor examples of regulation. Regulation in itself is not a bad thing. But poor regulations are very troublesome. Patriot Act and SOPA are examples of poor regulations where the government is trying to limit the civil liberties of the person and doesn't generally know what the fuck they are talking about. You see that's the thing. When the government actually knows the problem they can find a solution. But they don't know. Lobbying from huge corporations to increase their interests cloud what really needs to be done. They don't know they are doing wrong, they have all this information from corporations on bills like those and they make it sound good. Would you say that the Clean Air Act or the Pure Food and Drug Act is bad? These are regulations that prevent companies from doing certain things, and it has helped the populace. Regulations aren't bad in themselves, its just poor ones that are bad.

 

Now you did mention a rhetorical question of why we have the highest incaration rates. That's due mainly because of the Drug War. Such a stupid thing. I support decriminalization of drugs. We are fighting a stupid war on drugs and it is getting worse, not better. This is another example of poor regulation. 

 

The attack on our civil liberties is a problem that Social Conservatives have been placing on people for forever. Ron Paul isn't a cure for this. When you remove the walls between state and religion, bad things are going to happen. There is a reason why gay marriage is illegal. Why sexism is still prevelant. Things that directly affect me (considering I am a gay american, and for that reason alone I will fight Ron Paul to the death), and things that affect millions of people. Ron Paul isn't the cure, he's the problem. He's another conservative that wants to let religion into government, and I and millions of other Americans will NEVER get rights if that is allowed to happen. Ron Paul has things I agree on him with (non interventionism (although I'm not particularly as much of an isolationist like he is), decriminalization of drugs, and lowering of our deficit) but there are things that cannot be accepted (dismantling separation of Church and State, and letting Christian rule enter the country, deregulation of the economy). Those are dangerous things, and will reverse everything we have worked so hard to get to. Obama may not deserve a second term, but Ron Paul doesn't deserve a first.



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Sirstopp said:


On the contrary, I think you need to wake up. Rascism has been and still is very prevalent in the United States. You think I don't notice when public places have put up end rascism posters and people just go there and tear them down over and over? These people would in no way hire minorities over whites. No way. Black unemployment for teenagers is 41% last I checked. It still is very much needed. The reality is many of these southern and midwestern areas of the US are plagued by this. I live in one such town. It still is an issue. It's not ludicrous. Every generation goes through a civil rights movement, and then the generations afterwords are fighting off the stereotypes that come from that. The 60s were not that long ago, and it has not been enough time. 

So either you're saying that the laws have no effect other than giving the Government more power where it shouldn't and was never supposed to have,   or you're saying that we need to give preferential treatment to a specific race of people (Racism is racism whether it is on minorities or majorities.).


You do realize regulation of the economy is needed right? Do you remember when they pumped cows full of TB so it would get fatter? Or when American cities used to look like what Beijing does today? I'm going to say no because those aren't around today due to the efforts of the government. Now for the latter part I would have to say I don't agree with that, they are compensating for shitty primary schools in areas with huge amounts of minorities. If anything, they need to fix those schools instead of compensating for it later. It really is quite a dumb idea.

You believe the Government has made this country great, I believe the government has held it back and squarely put the United States in the situation it's at.  You do realize OVER regulation is why the United States is getting killed by our competitors right?

 

 Patriot Act and SOPA are examples of poor regulations where the government is trying to limit the civil liberties of the person and doesn't generally know what the fuck they are talking about. You see that's the thing. When the government actually knows the problem they can find a solution. But they don't know.

Wake up.  Government never knows.  It is wrong more than it is right,  it's too large to make wise choices.  This has been a standard since the dawn of time.  That is why this country was founded in the first place, was to avoid, escape and get away from Big government.

 

Lobbying from huge corporations to increase their interests cloud what really needs to be done. T

That's not going to go away.  None of these candidates (Including Obama) have done a damn thing to stop that.  They are snake oil salesman who will do anything and say anything to raise a few points in the polls.  That's not going to fix this country.  We owe trillions to China (Who has a fairly booming economy themselves)  and we refuse to stop spending.

 

hey don't know they are doing wrong, they have all this information from corporations on bills like those and they make it sound good. Would you say that the Clean Air Act or the Pure Food and Drug Act is bad? These are regulations that prevent companies from doing certain things, and it has helped the populace. Regulations aren't bad in themselves, its just poor ones that are bad.

The problem you see,  is that government consistently makes poor ones upon poors ones.  This is a fundamental point of smaller limited government.  This broad brushed approach will never, has never and today shows it will not work.

 

Now you did mention a rhetorical question of why we have the highest incaration rates. That's due mainly because of the Drug War. Such a stupid thing. I support decriminalization of drugs. We are fighting a stupid war on drugs and it is getting worse, not better. This is another example of poor regulation. 

Again,  why are you against Ron Paul then? He doesn't want to De-regulate everything like an Anarchist.  He just wants the States to have power and by that essence,  people will have a much LARGER voice in the political process.  That's the biggest problem we face today.  How many people have you heard say 'Im not going to vote, it won't matter anways!' ?   The political process feels like it doesn't matter anymore.   It's gotten too large.   Tell me honestly how much people around you care about your 'State' elections. 

 

The attack on our civil liberties is a problem that Social Conservatives have been placing on people for forever. Ron Paul isn't a cure for this.

Why not?  Ron Paul is Socially Liberal, Fiscally Conservative.  If he isn't the cure, then who or what is?


When you remove the walls between state and religion, bad things are going to happen. There is a reason why gay marriage is illegal. Why sexism is still prevelant. Things that directly affect me (considering I am a gay american, and for that reason alone I will fight Ron Paul to the death), and things that affect millions of people. Ron Paul isn't the cure, he's the problem. He's another conservative that wants to let religion into government, and I and millions of other Americans will NEVER get rights if that is allowed to happen.

You do realize Ron Paul supports gay marriage right?  You do realize his whole stance is,  no one should be punished for their belief system, regardless of race, creed, sexuality, etc?    You have as much rights as anyone else does.  However, you don't get to decide the thoughts or control what other people think or feel or how they act either.   Freedom is a two way street.  Freedom and Liberty doesn't mean you have everything the way you want it,  it means that everyone gets Freedom and Liberty.

 

Ron Paul has things I agree on him with (non interventionism (although I'm not particularly as much of an isolationist like he is), decriminalization of drugs, and lowering of our deficit) but there are things that cannot be accepted (dismantling separation of Church and State, and letting Christian rule enter the country, deregulation of the economy). Those are dangerous things, and will reverse everything we have worked so hard to get to. Obama may not deserve a second term, but Ron Paul doesn't deserve a first.

I've never once see him support a specific sect of religion or make it more valuable than another.  He has said he himself is a Christian, but that has no bearing on anything.  His whole point is to allow people to choose and do what they want as long as it doesn't physically harm someone else.  I don't , will not and can not find a reason to be upset about that. If someone wants to worship their god, it is their right to do so.  If someone doesn't wish to worship their god, it is their right also.

This economy NEEDS deregulation.  Look at why our business are flocking to Canada or Mexico or overseas if you don't believe me.  This country has regulation like crazy.


Ron Paul deserves a first term more than Obama deserved time in politics in any way shape or form.  He has done nothing other than live like a celebrity.  Ron Paul is actually intellectually honest.  Stop polarizing this as a 'Democrat' / Republican thing.  Just because you're gay doesn't mean a damn thing in politics. Democrats are just as guilty of persecution of Gays as Republicans.  

You need to accept the fact that people will not like or approve of your lifestyle or sexuality regardless if there is laws for it or not.



How can you not like Ron Paul? He's the only politician who has policies that make sense. 



What should I do in order to vote for Ron Paul? Probably too much to bother :D Still... Go Ron Paul!



Machina said:

I'd vote for him in an instant. I don't agree with everything he says (though moreso than any of the other candidates that's for damn sure), but I know he's saying what he believes when I watch these Republican debates, and I know he really would bring change, unlike the rest of them who are all varying shades of the same colour. I can't believe the Republicans are going for Romney as their candidate - the most smarmy, out of touch, epitome of everything that's wrong with professional politics.

You Americans are so lucky to have someone like that running for President, and what are you gonna do? Not vote for him. It's such a shame.

Amen. Sums my feelings perfectly.

I sincerely hate the Romney type of leaders, not just in politics where they are most prevalent.



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I'd vote for the most honest person, even if I don't agree with his/her points. Unfortunately, he's not in Canada.



Sirstopp said:
Rpruett said:
Sirstopp said:
Vertigo-X said:
Sirstopp said:
If you really pay attention to Ron Paul though, he isn't that great. He's what you would say is a "front page" candidate. One that looks good on the surface, but go deeper into it and it's really ugly and something awful.

For example: http://campaignstops.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/12/29/ron-pauls-world/

Okay, I'm getting a good laugh at your post.

 

That NY Times BLOG REEKS of bias. I don't even care to read the whole thing because it seems like the blogger was putting his own spin on events... -_-

Are you kidding me? He was against the Civil Rights Act and would have voted against it if he had the chance because he says it "infringes on personal rights". He has actually said this stuff. Does that sound like a candidate that is sane? Ron Paul has shown time and time again that he is insane. He doesn't even believe in separation of Church and State.

He's 100% right.   Insane?    I'm against portions of the Civil Rights act (Just as Ron Paul is).  I think racism is prevalent as ever because of what I would call 'forced' differences within society.  That comes in terms of giving minorities benefits that (Whites for example) don't get.  It keeps race specifically showing as an *issue*  or *difference*.  When the reality is, I think most people of my generation don't really consider race an issue.  Yet Obama ran on that platform like he was personally getting hosed down by the police.   It's ludicrous.

It goes against the constitution, it really does.  Why should the government tell you how to operate your business or how much of what race you  need to hire?   Why do colleges allow lesser qualified minorities into college for a cheaper rate than their non minority counter parts?

And where does the government stop once they control how you operate your business?  They don't stop.  They want to keep reaching further.  Look at Rick Santorum, the guy wants to control what everybody does and thinks its the governments OBLIGATION and he came out strongly in Iowa.  Patriot Act,  Internet restriction acts.  It doesn't stop.  It just keeps going.   We have the highest incarceration rate in the world.  Aww shucks, I wonder why?    And we still have more 'CRIME' than a majority of places in the world.

Wake up.


On the contrary, I think you need to wake up. Rascism has been and still is very prevalent in the United States. You think I don't notice when public places have put up end rascism posters and people just go there and tear them down over and over? These people would in no way hire minorities over whites. No way. Black unemployment for teenagers is 41% last I checked. It still is very much needed. The reality is many of these southern and midwestern areas of the US are plagued by this. I live in one such town. It still is an issue. It's not ludicrous. Every generation goes through a civil rights movement, and then the generations afterwords are fighting off the stereotypes that come from that. The 60s were not that long ago, and it has not been enough time. 

 

You do realize regulation of the economy is needed right? Do you remember when they pumped cows full of TB so it would get fatter? Or when American cities used to look like what Beijing does today? I'm going to say no because those aren't around today due to the efforts of the government. Now for the latter part I would have to say I don't agree with that, they are compensating for shitty primary schools in areas with huge amounts of minorities. If anything, they need to fix those schools instead of compensating for it later. It really is quite a dumb idea.

 

That I have not completely decided for myself. I am still working out my political views. I'm finding myself to be a progressive and have realized the risks of the deregulated world we live in now. Now the examples you have stated are poor examples of regulation. Regulation in itself is not a bad thing. But poor regulations are very troublesome. Patriot Act and SOPA are examples of poor regulations where the government is trying to limit the civil liberties of the person and doesn't generally know what the fuck they are talking about. You see that's the thing. When the government actually knows the problem they can find a solution. But they don't know. Lobbying from huge corporations to increase their interests cloud what really needs to be done. They don't know they are doing wrong, they have all this information from corporations on bills like those and they make it sound good. Would you say that the Clean Air Act or the Pure Food and Drug Act is bad? These are regulations that prevent companies from doing certain things, and it has helped the populace. Regulations aren't bad in themselves, its just poor ones that are bad.

 

Now you did mention a rhetorical question of why we have the highest incaration rates. That's due mainly because of the Drug War. Such a stupid thing. I support decriminalization of drugs. We are fighting a stupid war on drugs and it is getting worse, not better. This is another example of poor regulation. 

 

The attack on our civil liberties is a problem that Social Conservatives have been placing on people for forever. Ron Paul isn't a cure for this. When you remove the walls between state and religion, bad things are going to happen. There is a reason why gay marriage is illegal. Why sexism is still prevelant. Things that directly affect me (considering I am a gay american, and for that reason alone I will fight Ron Paul to the death), and things that affect millions of people. Ron Paul isn't the cure, he's the problem. He's another conservative that wants to let religion into government, and I and millions of other Americans will NEVER get rights if that is allowed to happen. Ron Paul has things I agree on him with (non interventionism (although I'm not particularly as much of an isolationist like he is), decriminalization of drugs, and lowering of our deficit) but there are things that cannot be accepted (dismantling separation of Church and State, and letting Christian rule enter the country, deregulation of the economy). Those are dangerous things, and will reverse everything we have worked so hard to get to. Obama may not deserve a second term, but Ron Paul doesn't deserve a first.


isnt he the only republican candidate that agrees with gay marrige?



Is that video video-game-related ? If not, I'm not sure that you can post that on VGC.



Sirstopp said:
Vertigo-X said:
Sirstopp said:
If you really pay attention to Ron Paul though, he isn't that great. He's what you would say is a "front page" candidate. One that looks good on the surface, but go deeper into it and it's really ugly and something awful.

For example: http://campaignstops.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/12/29/ron-pauls-world/

Okay, I'm getting a good laugh at your post.

 

That NY Times BLOG REEKS of bias. I don't even care to read the whole thing because it seems like the blogger was putting his own spin on events... -_-

Are you kidding me? He was against the Civil Rights Act and would have voted against it if he had the chance because he says it "infringes on personal rights". He has actually said this stuff. Does that sound like a candidate that is sane? Ron Paul has shown time and time again that he is insane. He doesn't even believe in separation of Church and State.


"Staying true to his brand of extreme libertarianism, Paul said he objected to the Civil Rights Act because of its infringement on private property rights. He said that while he would favor repealing Jim Crow laws, the United States “would be better off” without government intruding on and policing personal lives. When Chris Matthews pressed the issue, asking if it should be legal for shop owners to not allow blacks, Paul responded, “That’s ancient history. That’s over and done with.”"

http://colorlines.com/archives/2011/05/ron_paul_would_have_voted_against_civil_rights_act.html



I would have voted for him last election if he'd have made it through, and I intend to vote for him this year.

I also don't agree with a lot of what he says, but I feel he's the best choice out there, and will be a step in the right direction for our country.

Plus, what he says pleases the military (I can be considered a reliable source on this - I am military), and he's on the side of the Tea Party and Occupy movements, so there are millions more. All he has to do is either convince a shit-ton of voters or else get the backing of the Republicans, one or the other. I don't think he'll need both! If he wins a major party, most of that party's voters will vote just because he's their party. THEN he'll convince a bunch of others on his actual policies, and for once - unlike Obama - he'll be able to back what he says.



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