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Forums - General Discussion - Should guns be outlawed in America?

Player1x3 said:
phinch1 said:
Player1x3 said:
leatherhat said:
Player1x3 said:
leatherhat said:
Its not about home defense or hunting. Its about making sure the people can always "take care" of the government if they overstep their bounds, which America has apparently forgotten.


You honestly think american people can defeat government controlled US Army? Or did I misunderstood you?


Yes, and without too much difficulty 

then you don't know the first thing about military or modern warfare


And you quite clearly know nothing about history


True. I guess i forgot about the fact that weaponry, warfare tactics and gap between government's arsenal and civilian arsenal hasn't changed during history by the slightest. At all ! Also I forgot that USA has an army just as strong and capable as those of Afghanistan, Libya, and Somalia...


oh right, yet with all this amazing tech and new warfare tactics how come they still cant beat the talbian?  why have so many american and british soldiers this year died from IED's and roadside bombs,

plus numbers don't mean jack countless times in history smaller groups have wiped out larger numbered enemies

and finally, don't go bigging up Americas warefare tactics......because they arent that good, with all that tech you'd think there would be no such thing as Friendly fire



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spurgeonryan said:
KungKras said:
Player1x3 said:
phinch1 said:
Player1x3 said:
leatherhat said:
Player1x3 said:
leatherhat said:
Its not about home defense or hunting. Its about making sure the people can always "take care" of the government if they overstep their bounds, which America has apparently forgotten.


You honestly think american people can defeat government controlled US Army? Or did I misunderstood you?


Yes, and without too much difficulty 

then you don't know the first thing about military or modern warfare


And you quite clearly know nothing about history


True. I guess i forgot about the fact that weaponry, warfare tactics and gap between government's arsenal and civilian arsenal hasn't changed during history by the slightest. At all ! Also I forgot that USA has an army just as strong and capable as those of Afghanistan, Libya, and Somalia...

If the american army was pitted against the american people. How would the american army get its supplies? How would they be able to fight any prolonged war without any new recruits?

I am sure they would be able to get enough Americans who were afraid of retaliation to help them with whatever they needed. Plus in time of War I think American Soldiers can stay in any house that they want to. What would the single mom with 3 children do if a bunch of soldiers came in her house? She would let them, and probably cook for them and take care of them so that nothing happened to her or her children. That is if Americans went to war with the US Army.


Wow ive never laughed so hard in my life, so the American army have become bullies/theives? you know these soldiers have their own family right, first thing they are going to want to do is go home an protect their wife/kids



Outlawing gun ownership won't stop anything.

In the UK, after a series of grizzly and unfortunate attacks on children at their schools, Westminster outlawed gun ownership except for hunters, police, security forces, and the military.

Cut to modern day UK, in parts of the UK, Scotland for example, knifing attacks are frequent. Whereas in the US, we have been taught that knife attacks are usually very personal, in the UK knife attacks are all too often random and deadly. Glaswegian gang members routinely knife each other in initiation and turf battles. The use of knives as weapons in the UK has become so rampant that the violence is senseless and common place. I know of people who've been knived by neds for no other reason then party goers wouldn't supply alcohol to the neds who weren't invited to the party and were refused entry to the home. A reasonable assumption for any normal human being, but apparently in a neddish frame of mind an afront to a reasonable request on his part.

The effort to curb knife violence there is now so ridiculous that this Summer the police warned a woman in England that she could not brandish a knife in view of chavs who had been breaking into her home, otherwise she would be arrested. As well, in Scotland legislation was introduced making it illegal to step out of a home with any sort of knife, what so ever. It didn't matter whether the intention was to cut a egg and cress sandwich, or to knife an intruder who had left your home. Walking over the threshold of the doorway was illegal.

As much as I don't like guns, and as horrible as gun violence is, the problem is not guns. People who have the intent to kill or murder someone in a given situation will use whatever means they have available to do it. Per capita, random gun violence in the US is much rarer than random knife violence in the UK.

I don't think taking away guns will solve the cause of the violence, it'll just mean more people will die from knife violence.



KungKras said:
Player1x3 said:
phinch1 said:
Player1x3 said:
leatherhat said:
Player1x3 said:
leatherhat said:
Its not about home defense or hunting. Its about making sure the people can always "take care" of the government if they overstep their bounds, which America has apparently forgotten.


You honestly think american people can defeat government controlled US Army? Or did I misunderstood you?


Yes, and without too much difficulty 

then you don't know the first thing about military or modern warfare


And you quite clearly know nothing about history


True. I guess i forgot about the fact that weaponry, warfare tactics and gap between government's arsenal and civilian arsenal hasn't changed during history by the slightest. At all ! Also I forgot that USA has an army just as strong and capable as those of Afghanistan, Libya, and Somalia...

If the american army was pitted against the american people. How would the american army get its supplies? How would they be able to fight any prolonged war without any new recruits?


US army has more than enough supplies. Lord knows how much money they pumped in their military budget. New recruits wont be necessary



phinch1 said:
Player1x3 said:
phinch1 said:
Player1x3 said:
leatherhat said:
Player1x3 said:
leatherhat said:
Its not about home defense or hunting. Its about making sure the people can always "take care" of the government if they overstep their bounds, which America has apparently forgotten.


You honestly think american people can defeat government controlled US Army? Or did I misunderstood you?


Yes, and without too much difficulty 

then you don't know the first thing about military or modern warfare


And you quite clearly know nothing about history


True. I guess i forgot about the fact that weaponry, warfare tactics and gap between government's arsenal and civilian arsenal hasn't changed during history by the slightest. At all ! Also I forgot that USA has an army just as strong and capable as those of Afghanistan, Libya, and Somalia...


oh right, yet with all this amazing tech and new warfare tactics how come they still cant beat the talbian?  why have so many american and british soldiers this year died from IED's and roadside bombs,

plus numbers don't mean jack countless times in history smaller groups have wiped out larger numbered enemies

and finally, don't go bigging up Americas warefare tactics......because they arent that good, with all that tech you'd think there would be no such thing as Friendly fire


Where to start?

1.They DID defeat taliban army... they overthrew their rule in afghanistan  - they just didnt kill all of them, which is nearly impossible since taliban have reduced to guerrilla warfare tactics which can never be completely neutralized

2.Oversees troops don't represent 5% of true military power - every army is billion times more capable on its home soil. its the most comment  knowledge. If you think america would even consider fighting on its home soil the same way they did in afghanistan or iraq, you need to check yourself

3.I never mentioned any numbers

4.Wow, you really don't have clue about these kinds of staff. Military technology has no relations to friendly fire at all. Friendly fire is caused by the mistake of a soldier, not his equipment



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Reasonable said:
For me any properly policed and stable society has no need for personal armament. I have no problem with gun clubs, permit based hunting with guns, etc. or gun ownership with a reason in general but just having guns lying around seems pointless - and if you really need them for protection in your home or while mobile then your society isn't stable enough in terms of policing and civic order.

So I guess I'd like to see less need for guns without actually banning them. I would like to see the linkage of firearms to US citizenship and freedoms removed though.


I'd rather let me defence be my responsibility, than the responsibility of a unionized cop who has no stake in what happens to me. 

And when a burglar breaks into your house with a knife (or even a gun) would your rather have a handgun or a phone so you can call 911 and hope they arrive before you're dead. I'd rather have a handgun.

And my question for you is how would we achieve this properly policed society? Do you really want a cop and a few cameras on every street corner? I know I wouldn't. 



Player1x3 said:
phinch1 said:
Player1x3 said:
phinch1 said:
Player1x3 said:
leatherhat said:
Player1x3 said:
leatherhat said:
Its not about home defense or hunting. Its about making sure the people can always "take care" of the government if they overstep their bounds, which America has apparently forgotten.


You honestly think american people can defeat government controlled US Army? Or did I misunderstood you?


Yes, and without too much difficulty 

then you don't know the first thing about military or modern warfare


And you quite clearly know nothing about history


True. I guess i forgot about the fact that weaponry, warfare tactics and gap between government's arsenal and civilian arsenal hasn't changed during history by the slightest. At all ! Also I forgot that USA has an army just as strong and capable as those of Afghanistan, Libya, and Somalia...


oh right, yet with all this amazing tech and new warfare tactics how come they still cant beat the talbian?  why have so many american and british soldiers this year died from IED's and roadside bombs,

plus numbers don't mean jack countless times in history smaller groups have wiped out larger numbered enemies

and finally, don't go bigging up Americas warefare tactics......because they arent that good, with all that tech you'd think there would be no such thing as Friendly fire


Where to start?

1.They DID defeat taliban army... they overthrew their rule in afghanistan  - they just didnt kill all of them, which is nearly impossible since taliban have reduced to guerrilla warfare tactics which can never be completely neutralized

2.Oversees troops don't represent 5% of true military power - every army is billion times more capable on its home soil. its the most comment  knowledge. If you think america would even consider fighting on its home soil the same way they did in afghanistan or iraq, you need to check yourself

3.I never mentioned any numbers

4.Wow, you really don't have clue about these kinds of staff. Military technology has no relations to friendly fire at all. Friendly fire is caused by the mistake of a soldier, not his equipment


oh just that friendly fire seems to happen a lot with americans, so yeah modernwarfare tactics ay ;) ?  just like when they tried to save that british hostege in afgan, i know what we will do, throw a grenade in the room lol dickheads, if ANY country in the world wanted to over throw whoever is in power they could

gadafi is a prime example, civilians fighting with whatever to get rid of a leader in power

 

also what if the 50% of the soliders didnt agree with fighting other american civilians, they would probably join the civilians, why would they want to kill the people they signed up to protect?



Marks said:
Reasonable said:
For me any properly policed and stable society has no need for personal armament. I have no problem with gun clubs, permit based hunting with guns, etc. or gun ownership with a reason in general but just having guns lying around seems pointless - and if you really need them for protection in your home or while mobile then your society isn't stable enough in terms of policing and civic order.

So I guess I'd like to see less need for guns without actually banning them. I would like to see the linkage of firearms to US citizenship and freedoms removed though.


I'd rather let me defence be my responsibility, than the responsibility of a unionized cop who has no stake in what happens to me. 

And when a burglar breaks into your house with a knife (or even a gun) would your rather have a handgun or a phone so you can call 911 and hope they arrive before you're dead. I'd rather have a handgun.

And my question for you is how would we achieve this properly policed society? Do you really want a cop and a few cameras on every street corner? I know I wouldn't. 


The point is I don't expect a burgler to break into my house and I'm comfortable with a sensible level of police visibility and CCTV.  I don't have a gun in my house and I don't need one.  I'd prefer to live like that than feeling I do need a gun.



Try to be reasonable... its easier than you think...

Marks said:
Reasonable said:
For me any properly policed and stable society has no need for personal armament. I have no problem with gun clubs, permit based hunting with guns, etc. or gun ownership with a reason in general but just having guns lying around seems pointless - and if you really need them for protection in your home or while mobile then your society isn't stable enough in terms of policing and civic order.

So I guess I'd like to see less need for guns without actually banning them. I would like to see the linkage of firearms to US citizenship and freedoms removed though.


I'd rather let me defence be my responsibility, than the responsibility of a unionized cop who has no stake in what happens to me. 

And when a burglar breaks into your house with a knife (or even a gun) would your rather have a handgun or a phone so you can call 911 and hope they arrive before you're dead. I'd rather have a handgun.

And my question for you is how would we achieve this properly policed society? Do you really want a cop and a few cameras on every street corner? I know I wouldn't. 

Off topic, but ditch the handgun for home defense. 12 gauge security shotgun loaded with 00 buckshot makes a bigger statement and is far more effective for that type of application. 

More on topic, before anyone bothers to reply to the more cops more cameras solution; there's a finite limit to how many police officers can be on the beat at a given time (hint: it's nowhere near the same number as a military occupation of a city) and surveillance cameras are only good for providing evidence in the prosecution of a crime. Cameras won't stop a crime in progress. Not particularly helpful to the victim if they're dead. 



Reasonable said:

The point is I don't expect a burgler to break into my house and I'm comfortable with a sensible level of police visibility and CCTV.  I don't have a gun in my house and I don't need one.  I'd prefer to live like that than feeling I do need a gun.

Only problem is a pretty significant percentage of the US population does not live in cities, meaning they live in areas policed by a sheriff's office with limited personnel resources.

If you live in an area where your closest neighbor is over a mile away, about the only thing a CCTV camera would be good for is hitting an intruder over the head with it. 

For those who live in the city, even though the odds of being mugged/robbed whatever are multiple times higher than anywhere else, the additional police on patrol relative to non-urban areas simply aren't enough to cover everything at all times otherwise urban crime would be non-existent. It clearly isn't.

And no, I'm not advocating mass paranoia or that anyone should live in fear over things they have little control over, but accept that even Extreme Police Visibility and all the CCTV cameras in the world aren't a magical security blanket from crime.