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Forums - Microsoft Discussion - Microsoft is investing in their first party studios like never before.

Jay520 on 04 December 2011
zarx said:
Jay520 said:
Joelcool7 said:

Look Alan Wake could not be made by a team of 60 from the ground up in 2 years. Just like Uncharted 3 couldn't be done, or Mario or Halo or Forza or Gears. In fact the big games all take teams of over 100 often up to 400 over a year to make. Even games like MW3 which recycle old NPC's, Buildings and material from the older games still took a massive team.

A team of 60 can make a good game, a great casual game like Kinect sports no problem. But a big budget block buster is out of the question unless they re-use existing technology completely and have a direction pre-determined which they do not sway from. Even if the developer doesn't scrap anything using the graphics engine without alteration and does the project as fast as possible. A team of 60 would still be very hard pressed to create a quality title.


You mind explaining how Sucker Punch (at team of about 75) managed to develop a high-quality, open-world game in about two years.

For clarification that Sucker Punch has 75 employees, find any article regarding Sony's acquisition of the team. Here's one article:


It took them 4 years to make infamous (Sly 3 2005 Infamous 09) and 2 years to make a sequel (existing engine, pipepline, design and assets shortens dev time) plus they were an already established studio. A new studio will take longer as they need to set up pipelines, production proccesses etc. None of the 4 studios MS started this year will release a not Kinect/XBLA game for 3+ years.



oh, I thought they were discussing Alan Wake 2. My mistake.

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yo_john117 on 04 December 2011
Rath said:
Personally I'm still pissed at MS for shutting down Ensemble - one of their few really strong studios. =/

I could be wrong about this but I'm fairly sure MS just ended up making a different named studio with most of the devs from Ensemble.



Joelcool7 on 04 December 2011
zarx said:
Jay520 said:
Joelcool7 said:

Look Alan Wake could not be made by a team of 60 from the ground up in 2 years. Just like Uncharted 3 couldn't be done, or Mario or Halo or Forza or Gears. In fact the big games all take teams of over 100 often up to 400 over a year to make. Even games like MW3 which recycle old NPC's, Buildings and material from the older games still took a massive team.

A team of 60 can make a good game, a great casual game like Kinect sports no problem. But a big budget block buster is out of the question unless they re-use existing technology completely and have a direction pre-determined which they do not sway from. Even if the developer doesn't scrap anything using the graphics engine without alteration and does the project as fast as possible. A team of 60 would still be very hard pressed to create a quality title.


You mind explaining how Sucker Punch (at team of about 75) managed to develop a high-quality, open-world game in about two years.

For clarification that Sucker Punch has 75 employees, find any article regarding Sony's acquisition of the team. Here's one article:
http://blog.seattlepi.com/microsoft/2011/08/02/sony-buys-bellevues-sucker-punch-video-game-studio/


It took them 4 years to make infamous (Sly 3 2005 Infamous 09) and 2 years to make a sequel (existing engine, pipepline, design and assets shortens dev time) plus they were an already established studio. A new studio will take longer as they need to set up pipelines, production proccesses etc. None of the 4 studios MS started this year will release a not Kinect/XBLA game for 3+ years.


Put very well, I was going to say the same thing.

Another factor you must remember Sucker Punch was a Sony aligned studio prior to their acquisition. They had a PS3 kit long in advance and had vast knowledge of Sony's systems and protocols. By the time Infamous 2 was coming they knew the system in and out and had all the tools. Now suggest that they could make Infamous 3 on the PS4 in less then three years?

Fact is nobody has given a single example of a studio under a 100 employees which made a high quality game from the ground up in two years. I specifically said high quality block buster title, not a game re-using all the assets of a past game. Even studios using the Unreal Engine and tampering with it to create a high quality experiance take massive teams and at least almost two years from start to finish.

If a studio was capable of pumping out Uncharted with under a hundred employees and within a two year period, do you honestly think Sony would be relying on Naughty Dog. Fact is for a block buster first party title 60 employees in fact much under a hundred and a two year dev cycle just isn't enough to produce.

Especially considering the next Xbox is what these games are coming for and the users suggesting these games could be ready also suggest Microsoft did not begin development till at earliest this year. Their is no way if development of first party content is only beginning now and that these studios will produce launch titles or new blockbuster titles for the console within a year of launch that the console could come in 2013, 2014 would be a stretch and 2015 would be the most likely if you put 60 man teams on creating next generation first party software other then Kinect games.

It would take around three years for a team of under 100 to develop a next generation title from the ground up. Assuming Microsoft didn't already build the engines and the basic ground work for the titles. You don't just make big blockbuster games in a year or two with less then 100 employees! If you do they aren't the quality of Uncharted, Halo, Gears, Mario etc....etc...



-JC7

"In God We Trust - In Games We Play " - Joel Reimer

 

Joelcool7 on 04 December 2011
Rath said:
Personally I'm still pissed at MS for shutting down Ensemble - one of their few really strong studios. =/

Agreed! I miss Ensemble Robot is alright but they certainly aren't as good as the whole Ensemble team. Also while I still enjoy the new AOE:O it is not as good as its past installments. Ensemble was easily as good as any of the best RTS developers!



-JC7

"In God We Trust - In Games We Play " - Joel Reimer

 

Seece on 04 December 2011
Joelcool7 said:
zarx said:
Jay520 said:
Joelcool7 said:

Look Alan Wake could not be made by a team of 60 from the ground up in 2 years. Just like Uncharted 3 couldn't be done, or Mario or Halo or Forza or Gears. In fact the big games all take teams of over 100 often up to 400 over a year to make. Even games like MW3 which recycle old NPC's, Buildings and material from the older games still took a massive team.

A team of 60 can make a good game, a great casual game like Kinect sports no problem. But a big budget block buster is out of the question unless they re-use existing technology completely and have a direction pre-determined which they do not sway from. Even if the developer doesn't scrap anything using the graphics engine without alteration and does the project as fast as possible. A team of 60 would still be very hard pressed to create a quality title.


You mind explaining how Sucker Punch (at team of about 75) managed to develop a high-quality, open-world game in about two years.

For clarification that Sucker Punch has 75 employees, find any article regarding Sony's acquisition of the team. Here's one article:
http://blog.seattlepi.com/microsoft/2011/08/02/sony-buys-bellevues-sucker-punch-video-game-studio/


It took them 4 years to make infamous (Sly 3 2005 Infamous 09) and 2 years to make a sequel (existing engine, pipepline, design and assets shortens dev time) plus they were an already established studio. A new studio will take longer as they need to set up pipelines, production proccesses etc. None of the 4 studios MS started this year will release a not Kinect/XBLA game for 3+ years.


Put very well, I was going to say the same thing.

Another factor you must remember Sucker Punch was a Sony aligned studio prior to their acquisition. They had a PS3 kit long in advance and had vast knowledge of Sony's systems and protocols. By the time Infamous 2 was coming they knew the system in and out and had all the tools. Now suggest that they could make Infamous 3 on the PS4 in less then three years?

Fact is nobody has given a single example of a studio under a 100 employees which made a high quality game from the ground up in two years. I specifically said high quality block buster title, not a game re-using all the assets of a past game. Even studios using the Unreal Engine and tampering with it to create a high quality experiance take massive teams and at least almost two years from start to finish.

If a studio was capable of pumping out Uncharted with under a hundred employees and within a two year period, do you honestly think Sony would be relying on Naughty Dog. Fact is for a block buster first party title 60 employees in fact much under a hundred and a two year dev cycle just isn't enough to produce.

Especially considering the next Xbox is what these games are coming for and the users suggesting these games could be ready also suggest Microsoft did not begin development till at earliest this year. Their is no way if development of first party content is only beginning now and that these studios will produce launch titles or new blockbuster titles for the console within a year of launch that the console could come in 2013, 2014 would be a stretch and 2015 would be the most likely if you put 60 man teams on creating next generation first party software other then Kinect games.

It would take around three years for a team of under 100 to develop a next generation title from the ground up. Assuming Microsoft didn't already build the engines and the basic ground work for the titles. You don't just make big blockbuster games in a year or two with less then 100 employees! If you do they aren't the quality of Uncharted, Halo, Gears, Mario etc....etc...

Why have you got this incessant need for it to be 2 years anyway? Some of these studios are brand new, some were earlier this year. Skyrim was apparantly built with 'roughly 100 people' and they started dev work after Fallout 3 (late 08) so 3 years for Skyrim. This means any of the new studios can have a blockbuster (if the talent is there) by 2014, a year into next gen.

You just have this ridiculous assumption that because there are only 60 people in one of the studios, that they will be churning out casual kinect shovelware. Yeah, go away Joel.



 

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Millenium on 04 December 2011

This to me seems like Microsoft is gearing up for the future, and i certainly hope as a Xbox fan, successfully so, they've been in quite a slump lately, letting several studios go, and disbanding Ensemble, which was a pretty well established developer.

Hopefully with these new studios, and continued third party support, they'll have one hell of a 2013/2014, and a good Xbox "720" launch... We'll just have to wait and see :)

PS: Microsoft, buy Remedy! Do not let another one slip through your grasp.



DirtyP2002 on 04 December 2011

you guys couldn't be more wrong with the number of employees to the years of development to the quality of the product stuff.

Sucker Punch was a perfect example, but somehow it was not the same. Nobody knows why, but ok.

 

Media Molecule:

founded by 6 guys in 2006!
First game LBP in 2008!
PSP release of LBP in 2009!
GOTY release of LBP in 2009!
LBP 2 release of LBP2 in 2011!
DLC for LBP2 in 2011!

--> Number of employees: 40.

 

you can do a lot of awesome stuff with a team of 60 great employees.

I did not know that the MS / Xbox hate was still that strong on VGC.


People here seem to forget that MS does a lot of partnerships with different studios. That is how Alan Wake, Gears of War, Ryse and Mass Effect are exclusive to the Xbox 360.

If MS can add two 3 million+ seller next to Halo, Forza, Fable and Gears you have a very good roster of software.



Imagine not having GamePass on your console...

donsterydo2 on 04 December 2011

We will have to wait 2-3 years to see what these new studios are capable of.

I hope for some new action packed game like Gears of War & Halo.



Lucas-Rio on 04 December 2011

Microsoft has by far the worst first and second party studio among the 3 manufacturer.

They don't care about developping games. They closed their best studio, Ensemble Studio without any reason. They turned Rare into a joke.

It will take a very long time until they are taken seriously as a developper.



D-Joe on 04 December 2011
Seece said:
Joelcool7 said:
zarx said:
Jay520 said:
Joelcool7 said:

Look Alan Wake could not be made by a team of 60 from the ground up in 2 years. Just like Uncharted 3 couldn't be done, or Mario or Halo or Forza or Gears. In fact the big games all take teams of over 100 often up to 400 over a year to make. Even games like MW3 which recycle old NPC's, Buildings and material from the older games still took a massive team.

A team of 60 can make a good game, a great casual game like Kinect sports no problem. But a big budget block buster is out of the question unless they re-use existing technology completely and have a direction pre-determined which they do not sway from. Even if the developer doesn't scrap anything using the graphics engine without alteration and does the project as fast as possible. A team of 60 would still be very hard pressed to create a quality title.


You mind explaining how Sucker Punch (at team of about 75) managed to develop a high-quality, open-world game in about two years.

For clarification that Sucker Punch has 75 employees, find any article regarding Sony's acquisition of the team. Here's one article:
http://blog.seattlepi.com/microsoft/2011/08/02/sony-buys-bellevues-sucker-punch-video-game-studio/


It took them 4 years to make infamous (Sly 3 2005 Infamous 09) and 2 years to make a sequel (existing engine, pipepline, design and assets shortens dev time) plus they were an already established studio. A new studio will take longer as they need to set up pipelines, production proccesses etc. None of the 4 studios MS started this year will release a not Kinect/XBLA game for 3+ years.


Put very well, I was going to say the same thing.

Another factor you must remember Sucker Punch was a Sony aligned studio prior to their acquisition. They had a PS3 kit long in advance and had vast knowledge of Sony's systems and protocols. By the time Infamous 2 was coming they knew the system in and out and had all the tools. Now suggest that they could make Infamous 3 on the PS4 in less then three years?

Fact is nobody has given a single example of a studio under a 100 employees which made a high quality game from the ground up in two years. I specifically said high quality block buster title, not a game re-using all the assets of a past game. Even studios using the Unreal Engine and tampering with it to create a high quality experiance take massive teams and at least almost two years from start to finish.

If a studio was capable of pumping out Uncharted with under a hundred employees and within a two year period, do you honestly think Sony would be relying on Naughty Dog. Fact is for a block buster first party title 60 employees in fact much under a hundred and a two year dev cycle just isn't enough to produce.

Especially considering the next Xbox is what these games are coming for and the users suggesting these games could be ready also suggest Microsoft did not begin development till at earliest this year. Their is no way if development of first party content is only beginning now and that these studios will produce launch titles or new blockbuster titles for the console within a year of launch that the console could come in 2013, 2014 would be a stretch and 2015 would be the most likely if you put 60 man teams on creating next generation first party software other then Kinect games.

It would take around three years for a team of under 100 to develop a next generation title from the ground up. Assuming Microsoft didn't already build the engines and the basic ground work for the titles. You don't just make big blockbuster games in a year or two with less then 100 employees! If you do they aren't the quality of Uncharted, Halo, Gears, Mario etc....etc...

Why have you got this incessant need for it to be 2 years anyway? Some of these studios are brand new, some were earlier this year. Skyrim was apparantly built with 'roughly 100 people' and they started dev work after Fallout 3 (late 08) so 3 years for Skyrim. This means any of the new studios can have a blockbuster (if the talent is there) by 2014, a year into next gen.

You just have this ridiculous assumption that because there are only 60 people in one of the studios, that they will be churning out casual kinect shovelware. Yeah, go away Joel.

well they just try make every MS things to sounds shit(first reply of this page is perfect example)

and lol,no one said this 5new studois all opened at 2011

for example,Vancouver opened at 2010



http://zh-tw.justin.tv/johndoe1899