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Forums - General Discussion - Occupy Wall Street Protests not working? What do you think?

 

How much of an impact is OWS having?

Can't hear them over the sound of my Ferrari 60 24.10%
 
Just a news story, no visible results 82 32.93%
 
Helping change minds, it's a start 68 27.31%
 
Change is on the horizon, just you wait 27 10.84%
 
I feel the impact already 6 2.41%
 
Can't hear them over the... 6 2.41%
 
Total:249
Mr Khan said:
Kasz216 said:
Mr Khan said:
Marks said:
These protesters are protesting all the wrong things which is why I'm sick of this occupy wall street thing. It should be occupy the whitehouse/federal reserve/congress...not wall street aka the people that create jobs, wealth, etc.

But they don't create jobs and wealth. They just sit around trading each other funny money and don't do a damn thing to increase actual value. That belongs with entrepreneurs and people who are actually on the ground and, you know, making things or providing services.

These people are like a new aristocracy. Like the gentlemen farmers of old who just sat around and did whatever they pleased off the backs of the peons that served them, these people do nothing but leech off society.

The Middle Class and some of the more productive regions of the upper class are right to desire revolt against Wall Street, to speak nothing of this nation's much-abused underclass. The people who work need to strike at the Finance sector and rapidly curb its excesses


A) Just about everyone in the middle class has a very vested interest in the stock market.  It's often where there retirement fund money is at least to some degree... be it through Mutual Funds or Retirement plans or whatever.

54% of americans own stock... and this is the lowest number it's been since 1999.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/147206/stock-market-investments-lowest-1999.aspx

 

B) The stock market isn't "Funny money" being traded.  It's ownership in a company being traded.  The fluctiations in the stock market represent the chaning values of the companies they are trading.  There isn't anything fake about it.

C) Something like 90% of a comapnies job growth comes after issueing stock... because entrepenuers need money... and the stock market is how they can get it.  Even most "angel investments" and venture capitalist money that comes in BEFORE an IPO comes in because they want the rights to a certain amount of shares when it comes to the stock market.

http://www.nysemagazine.com/jobcreation

When you comapre the number of IPO's lately versus how they were when jobs were growing in great supply.... a pattern develops.  In general lots of companies no longer see the advantage to go public, and instead stay private and small.

I suppose my post let on an implication that i was opposed to all finance, which is absolutely untrue, since i am a modernizationist at heart and the ability for individuals to invest and for corporations to gather funding from stock ownership is a critical part of our modern world, however we have gotten well beyond simple investment in a corporation, and i would argue that this has occurred to an unhealthy degree.

It creates the aforementioned nonproductive money handling class. What of commodities paper-trading, derivatives, short-selling, credit-default swaps, points upon which the gain of money is tied to nothing but shifting around digital points, creating money from nothing, hence "funny money"

I would actually argue that none of those are just "shifting around digital points" and only looks that way to people who don't look deeply into what they are.

For example  short selling essentially is a bit of insurance and a way for mutal funds and hedgefunds to recoup money they may lose on stocks they own by loaning it to lenders.

Really, it doesn't actually create any value at all... and in general kinda helps most of the time because Wall-street tends to be very optimistic.  Short Sellers can't work if there aren't buyers willing to pay that price anyway.

Credit Default swaps are also more or less an insurance policy.

 Furthermore, all these actions make stocks more attractive to own.  Which makes venture capitalists go after new IPO's harder... because it's all the more valuable to be on the ground floor.



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Not working at all!!!

If anything it reinforces a negative stereotype of protesters.

A friend of mine, who lives close to one of the occupy site, was invited to a community meeting to discuss the impacts of the protests. As soon as the protesters found out about the meeting, they became extremely aggressive, even to the point of attacking the owner of the restaurant they were meeting.




kingwandymion said:
hulkanomics would probably be worse than reaganomics, brother.


Yeah, because taking the employment to population ration from 56% yo 62% was so bad ... It would be so bad to have a president enact policies like that after the population to employment ration has fallen from above 62% to below 58% over the past 3 years.



Obama may had to take charge while the house was on fire, but he has not done much to douse the flames.

He however then takes pride saying, at least the walls are still standing.



lordmandeep said:
Obama may had to take charge while the house was on fire, but he has not done much to douse the flames.

He however then takes pride saying, at least the walls are still standing.


I'd say he's helped the fire grow.  Except now he can point at the house next door (europe) and say, well at least our house isn't nuked like that one.



BOOM!  FACE KICK!

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Funny thing is a lot of those protesters probably still maintain business with banks and work for corporations. If you Americans want to successfully protest:

1. Cancel your bank accounts
2. Sell your common stocks, withdraw RRSPs, and all other investments.
3. Don't work for anyone with links to a corporation
4. File for bankruptcy if you have debt.

If millions of people did this, THEN the corporations in the US would be downright terrified.



I describe myself as a little dose of toxic masculinity.

Jumpin said:

Funny thing is a lot of those protesters probably still maintain business with banks and work for corporations. If you Americans want to successfully protest:

1. Cancel your bank accounts
2. Sell your common stocks, withdraw RRSPs, and all other investments.
3. Don't work for anyone with links to a corporation
4. File for bankruptcy if you have debt.

If millions of people did this, THEN the corporations in the US would be downright terrified.


No one has the balls to do something like that. Can't I just scream at police and not allow working people to work?



Mr Khan said:
Marks said:
These protesters are protesting all the wrong things which is why I'm sick of this occupy wall street thing. It should be occupy the whitehouse/federal reserve/congress...not wall street aka the people that create jobs, wealth, etc.

But they don't create jobs and wealth. They just sit around trading each other funny money and don't do a damn thing to increase actual value. That belongs with entrepreneurs and people who are actually on the ground and, you know, making things or providing services.

 


So who does create jobs and wealth then? Its certainly not the government. Government kills more jobs than it creates. 



Player1x3 said:
Jumpin said:

Funny thing is a lot of those protesters probably still maintain business with banks and work for corporations. If you Americans want to successfully protest:

1. Cancel your bank accounts
2. Sell your common stocks, withdraw RRSPs, and all other investments.
3. Don't work for anyone with links to a corporation
4. File for bankruptcy if you have debt.

If millions of people did this, THEN the corporations in the US would be downright terrified.


No one has the balls to do something like that. Can't I just scream at police and not allow working people to work?

By balls, you mean courage. Of course it takes courage to have an effective protest. The only way to effectively weaken someone who thrives off of the money they are getting from you and millions of others, is if those millions of others stop giving them money, and that starts with you.



I describe myself as a little dose of toxic masculinity.

Jumpin said:

Funny thing is a lot of those protesters probably still maintain business with banks and work for corporations. If you Americans want to successfully protest:

1. Cancel your bank accounts
2. Sell your common stocks, withdraw RRSPs, and all other investments.
3. Don't work for anyone with links to a corporation
4. File for bankruptcy if you have debt.

If millions of people did this, THEN the corporations in the US would be downright terrified.


That is about the worst idea I have ever heard ... While transferring your bank account to a credit union or a small bank can be an effective protest against a large bank, the rest of your suggestions are moronic.

Corporatism is a problem where gigantic corporations buy influence from politicians to gain favour with a government which has so much power that its decisions can make these corporations billions of dollars. The core problem is the government has so much power and leeway to make decisions which favour a corporation (or industry) at the expense of the general public. With that said, you’re not even attempting to target corporations that have behaved poorly and bought influence, and your untargeted and poorly thought out action will likely result in far more honourable and well run businesses struggling than large corporations; and your actions will likely have significant negative effects on countless individuals, in particular young people looking for jobs (as large corporations shift their workforce to countries where people actually want to work) and the elderly (who’s fixed income is heavily dependant on the investments you destroyed).

 

Rather than doing this, why don't you do something completely radical and research which companies are behaving well and which are behaving poorly and publish this information in an attept to sway people with a similar worldview to support the good companies? If you convince enough people to buy these products and services, and to invest in these stocks, you will have created an incentive for companies to act in the way you want them to ...

If you combine that with a massive reduction in the power of the government, and force the government to treat all corporations under the same rules (with no special treatment for any corporation or industry) you would likely see a massive change in how business is done.