And a different likely more varied poll.

13% Supporting
31% Dissaprove
56% Don't know enough about what the heck OWS is about

A) Just about everyone in the middle class has a very vested interest in the stock market.  It's often where there retirement fund money is at least to some degree... be it through Mutual Funds or Retirement plans or whatever.

54% of americans own stock... and this is the lowest number it's been since 1999.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/147206/stock-market-investments-lowest-1999.aspx

B) The stock market isn't "Funny money" being traded.  It's ownership in a company being traded.  The fluctiations in the stock market represent the chaning values of the companies they are trading.  There isn't anything fake about it.

C) Something like 90% of a comapnies job growth comes after issueing stock... because entrepenuers need money... and the stock market is how they can get it.  Even most "angel investments" and venture capitalist money that comes in BEFORE an IPO comes in because they want the rights to a certain amount of shares when it comes to the stock market.

http://www.nysemagazine.com/jobcreation

When you comapre the number of IPO's lately versus how they were when jobs were growing in great supply.... a pattern develops.  In general lots of companies no longer see the advantage to go public, and instead stay private and small.

Man the conservative is strong in this thread. I dont follow the news that much anymore but the way I have seen OWS(both locally and on TV) is a bunch of people(no its not a bunch of hippies or spoiled kids or people that dont want to work) from all ages 18-old as fuck(from my visual inspection) that are tired of big businesses and the government working hand and hand to control the majority of wealth while the American empire crumbles away.

OWS doesnt seem to have answers(I do think that completly changing the economic and government scape of this country seems difficult) and "Wall Street", "Big Business" and the "%1" dont give a shit cause they will still continue to make money off of a system that is firmly stuck in place and protected by a government and legal system that is paid for.

1.  Well, they certainly aren't cooperating enough then.    Hard to say whether it's greed, sabotage, or what, from my vantage point. 

2.  OK

3.  That's like saying advertising doesn't work because no amount of advertising would have made Superman 64 a bestseller.  Although it's true that people's preexisting attitudes about the issues/parties puts a limit on the effectiveness of campaigning. 

But at the very least I think you have to agree that if they are fighting the reform so hard, THEY, at least, think the money makes a big difference.

I suppose my post let on an implication that i was opposed to all finance, which is absolutely untrue, since i am a modernizationist at heart and the ability for individuals to invest and for corporations to gather funding from stock ownership is a critical part of our modern world, however we have gotten well beyond simple investment in a corporation, and i would argue that this has occurred to an unhealthy degree.

It creates the aforementioned nonproductive money handling class. What of commodities paper-trading, derivatives, short-selling, credit-default swaps, points upon which the gain of money is tied to nothing but shifting around digital points, creating money from nothing, hence "funny money"

well you cannot blame Conservatism, for Europe should be a shining beacon then ^^^

Its corrupt politician from both sides.


Also, most middle class people have some sort of investments indirectly and directly. So to assume anyone who has an interest in the stock market is a the 1% is silly.
I do not want the financial system to come crashing down for that would ruin my investments and my family's investments, now does that make me an elitist?

About funny money, well young people with OWS are the people that least understand the finance system. What you refer to funny money is I assume people and buying and selling stocks and derivatives on margin rather then their own money or perhaps short selling? CDO's and MBS and swaps and such?

Also, declaring war on business is silly. Business investment is one of the main aspects of economic growth and frankly due to all the instability due to a weak American/European govt, many businesses do not want to invest even if they are making a profit. However to many on the left this is seen as hoarding money.

Oh it's just an extreme example.  I suppose a better one is the Republican primaries though.  Herman Cain didn't start getting serious fundraiser money until after his boom.  The same with Newt Gingrich.

I can't find the chapter online, but i'd suggest reading freakanomics and seeing the actual statistics and reasoning behind it though.

Oh I think they think it does.

My general point isn't that crony capitalism goes on.  It totally does...

My point is that the corporations are more playing off each other in senators minds.  For example, our corporate tax rate that's at 32%, Effectivly is like ~26% and is still higher then the rest of the world, but some corporations pay between 0-10%.

To most senators without the subsdies the corporate tax rate would be 26%.  What's the old saying... robbing peter to feed paul or something?

This negativly effects people indirectly because it creates an uneven playing field among the 1%.  Which is something that is generally missed by OWS and there railing against the "1%" in a general "all rich people suck and should be punished" type sentiment that seems to come from them... and something generally missed by regular people and senators.  Though actually in general the public is genreally starting to see some of this stuff as bad.  Actually thanks to the Tea Party more then anything.  I mean hell, when Republicans are talking about farming subsidy cuts you know something is going on.

I can't help but look at New Zealand a country considered far more left wing then us... and there 0% corproate tax rates.

See this is where I think many people are not thinking clearly.

American corporate tax rates are actually high compared to the rest of the world. Its higher than Canada (as of now) and even North European Countries.

You know what the issue is, those countries collect taxes from corporations and a decent portion of total revenues is from corporate taxes.

Its just that the US has so many loopholes and lax rules that allow corporations to not pay little to no tax.