what ignorance? i asked you to validate your bullshit claim about forza having more features and you failed massively... all you really did in that wall of text is say that you believe certain aspects from both games are better in forza ( which by the way i have no idea how the hell you would know as you already admitted you never played gt 5 ), then proceed to list the features i already mentioned "livery editor, autovista and kinect integration"

and i'm not sure if you get the fact yet that some of the features you mentioned are arguably better in gt 5 it all comes down to opinion for some features for example

"Better single player "campaign"" i'd say that the lack of some aspects available to gt like license tests, greater variety of race types etc makes this claim bullshit

"arguably better simulation" as far as i know its generally been accepted that gt has better physics i'm not really sure where you got that from

"Also Forza games get a lot of dedicated DLC per game and they release much faster then GT5s did." gt 5 has had over 10 updates since its release ( or in other words dlc that you don't pay for )

and i could go on

but the bottomline is no where in there did you mentioned features unavailabe on gt that i didn't already mention and i was originally talking about this claim you made 

"but they still lacked a lot of features that Forza has"

you haven't yet named those features... then again i'm thinking its more because you can't than anything else

Great, thanks for the mature response and reading the opinions of other users. I guess I'll just let you believe that PS3 can stay relevent for years after Xbox 720 because of....PS Vita? You fanboys are funny.

The 3rd party response is just another giant excuse. No need for the history lesson im aware of what happened.

???

.. well..then.. why would you say this --> "it is a known fact that many 3rd party developers had trouble with it, even in 2010 with games like Bayonetta" <-- what was the point in saying this then if you were already "aware of what happened"??

and LOL at the fact that you tried to say "with games like" on the sly as if there were many PS3 games that came out bad in 2010 compared to the 360 version when it was really ONLY Bayonetta..

please tell me that you are not about to start backtracking -_-

the hard reality is that for approximately 4 years, we have seen better 360 multiplats then PS3 versions.

oh look, we have a rocket scientist in the building

If Sony made the PS3 just a tad more like 360's architecture, then the embarrassing ports wouldn't have happened.

well being that i already stated earlier that Sony went with different architecture than 360 and that devs developed on 360 1st then ported to ps3?

correct, captain obvious

i dont know what was supposed to be the relevance of even mentioning this but ok..

Don't tell me that you know better then the many developers that choose to make early PS3 multiplats ports the way they did.

LMAO

all you have to do is just pay attention to what these developers say and then connect the dots

let me give you an example

it's kinda like when Square said that the 360 version of Final Fantasy 13 would not hamper the ps3 version. Then later on they admitted that they cut so much content from the ps3 version of FF13 that the cut content could be it's own game.

and when they said that the reason they were bringing Final Fantasy 13 to 360 was to broaden the audience BUT THEN they came back later and said that the REAL reason they brung Final Fantasy 13 to 360 was because Microsoft had simply "asked" them to

it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure this stuff out

oh wait..

They have automatically more credentials then you or me on what to do with their time and money.

uh yes

and that is why most developers have already admitted that they develop on 1 console 1st then port to the next to save time and money like i've already said before -_-

It was never up to Sony and im sure now we all know that. 3rd party industry made sure they share almost exactly the same library, since exclusives are only a small fraction of it. So based on this knowledge, if PS4 launches after the next Xbox, they damn well make sure the architecture is similar, or here we go again :P

LOL

So this is what it comes down to? Denial and ignorance? 3 Forzas. 1 GT. 3 90+ reviews. 1 84. It is what it is, sorry. <-- aww, how clever of you ;)

"Denial and ignorance"???

are you serious? -_-

ok lets all just ignore the fact that Turn10 have admitted(not even 2 months ago) that they cant pull off over 1000 cars, night/day cycle and nascar etc etc on Forza with 360

but yet you are implying that im the 1 that is in denial and ignorant??

ok, whatever you say :)

500 premium cars > 200. GT got simply outdid *lifts shoulders* <-- there it goes again LOL it's nice to see that you are picking up and learning stuff from me. I wish i could say the same about you but oh well.. *lifts shoulders*

a car is a car at the end of the day and GT5 has over 1000 while Forza only has 500, Sorry ;)

Forza 4 came out a year after GT5 and was outdid from the gate, sorry ;)

Yes but 800 of them have inferior interiors and exteriors. Kinda destroys the "best sim" argument if they don't look remotely close to the real world counterpart due to being upscaled PS2 models. <--AND--> Actually no. Rsearch PD to Turn 10. Turn 10's big advantage is that they have a TON of staff, much more then PD. This explains how fast yet quality controlled every Forza is. If Sony cares to *take back* the sim crown, they should start hiring more people at PD, so until then, PD will work at a snails pace compared to Turn 10.

yea yea yea i've heard it all before but im just going to simply quote what i've said earlier as a response to this ;)

it is what it is, you can say what you want about GT and Forza but Polyphony outdid Turn10's Forza games this gen with GT5 *lifts shoulders*

honestly all Turn10 had to do was deliver(which we all know why they couldn't) with the 1000 cars,night/day cycle etc and you wouldn't see so many Forza and GT fans debating it up so much

Polyphony just simply futurproofed GT5 this gen *lifts shoulders*

it is what it is

PD did technically make 2 GTs this gen, but one was actually for PSP. Turns out that was the worst thing they ever did. They should have focused their resources purely on PS3, coupled with that GT PSP is in the *70's* on metacritic, a stain on the franchise that won't go away :)

now i want you to go back and reread what i said about the GT game's each gen

i CLEARLY said 2 gt's each ps "HOME" console each gen(excluding this one)

dont worry, i havn't edited the post it's still there LMAO

hmm.. you know what i noticed? you basically have not said 1 damn thing this whole comment -_-

Edit: okay i think this is honestly going to be my last "Big A** Wall Of Text" i make on this because this little debate(or whatever anybody wants to call it) has basically been dwindled down to GT vs Forza but whatever..

Great, thanks for the mature response and reading the opinions of other users

there is no need to read an opinion when the person says --> But c'mon, it'll die as soon as the NextBox comes out. <-- like really? REALLY?

that's funny when you look at the how there were 360 games that were also being made on the ps2 EVEN THOUGH the graphics and architecture was so different

and isn't the next generation supposed to be seeing LESS of a leap than what we seen with this generation coming off of the last? :)

it just made no sense, like why would the ps3 just up and die when NexBox is released?

even microsoft has said that they are going to shoot for the 10 year plan just like Sony, so why would microsoft do what Sony does if the ps3 was going to "die" when the NexBox releases like you claimed? even they know that the PS3 is going to go on AFTER NexBox releases

I guess I'll just let you believe that PS3 can stay relevent for years after Xbox 720 because of....PS Vita?

oh so it's about PSVita? nah dont sit here and try to omit everything else and bunch everything up on what i said about Vita

if you read the whole comment you would notice that i also mentioned the Wii U keeping it alive as well. I did not say JUST Vita -_-

and it's obvious that the developers are going to KEEP supporting these consoles(HD) after next gen arrives. I was just saying because the other guy i replied to was basically saying that they might drop support for ps3 soon after next gen but even he DIDN'T claim something as far as it "dying as soon as Nexbox arrives"

You fanboys are funny.

"you" fanboys  as in "me" being a fanboy?

okay if so then tell me exactly how im a "fanboy"?

You don't understand "die". Die as in the community as a whole keeping with it. Gamers want the newest, the best graphics, etc. PS3 will still sell a bit when 720 comes out, but it really won't keep a hugely robust community as it is right now when it is the mainstream console.

You mentioned WiiU games keeping PS3 alive. The reason most games look likep ports of 360 and PS3 games is because...they are. For now. It has a LOT more horsepower under the hood. Do you think developers will want to develop for the underpowered PS3 (read my first post that you ignored for details on that) when the WiiU and 720 offer so much easier development and more horsepower? They will be able to render games with great textures at 1080/60. PS3 is stuck at 720/30 for games with huge textures, or lower if the developer is lazy (read: Treyarch, developers of COD: Black Ops).

You mention 360 games being put on the PS2, well most of them looked like crap and were missing a lot of funtionality. Thus, most Americans just went about bought a 360 because it was so much better. Sony will NOT let Xbox just gobble up the marketshare that the 360 got this gen.

The leap to next-gen will be huge. Not quite SD ->> HD but it will be big. Instead of games struggling to render at 720/30, we'll be seeing 1080/60 consistently, better lighting (something a lot of games right now struggle with), better post-processing effects, actually have decent MSAA and AF, and the transition to a Blu-Ray only console gen with the start of downloads becoming a mainstream way of getting games. In order for that, the consoles are gonna have to be wholly integrated to a FAST internet connections (something the PS3's 802.11g isn't ready for, even though they could update it easily, I don't see why Sony hasn't).

I mentioned PS Vita because you did. You said that it would keep PS3 alive for years. Right now, the Vita's tech is shoehorned into PS3. PS4 will actually have integration with it (at least it should)

Loved how you were so deliciously patronizing here :)

Clearly were done here. But the GT vs Forza thingie will always astonish me.

GT5 has 200 cars and 800 junkers, weather, and night and day. Forza 4 comes out a year later. Reviewers know its lacking those features.....yet they all still praise Forza 4 and give it a 90+ score on Metacritic. Thats the main point here that you refuse to accept: how Forza 4 outdid GT5 even without those features....meaning theres more to Forza.......and things in GT5 that are to be desired. 

Clearly you guys are blind to GT5's faults and and seriously overstating those few features...otherwise Forza 4 would have lost serious marks for not having them. But here we are.

3 Forzas with 90+ marks. GT5 has a 84.

Thats something that won't go away and is tangible proof that GT is the inferior franchise. Period. Anything you say to the contrary is your own opinion and nothing more. GT was on top and now its officially #2. Its still your favourite franchise, congrats. But it ain't #1 no more.  

Look buddy, you could claim ignorance, but at the end of the day Forza 4 was measured against the standards of GT5 and it was outdone. Clearly Forza 4 has things that GT5 doesn't have that warrant a 90+ grade. 

If I can't convince you, then I failed. But I know im not wrong. That 91 over GT5s 84 proves it. We could read all the reviews and find out exactly whats going on but rest assured GT5 is officially inferior :)

Its human nature to rebel once you fall from the top to someone else. I get it. You go off in your little world where Gt5 is your favourite sim.......doesn't make it the best. 

"You go off in your little world where Gt5 is your favourite sim.......doesn't make it the best."

and where did i say that gt 5 is the better game/sim or that its my favourite? even if i did thats not the argument... you've made this claim repeatedly ( to the point where you sound like a broken radio ) :

"but they still lacked a lot of features that Forza has"

and all i've asked is what are those features? after all this time you still can't name them

i never questioned the fact that forza may do or implement certain things better or that it is rated higher

Sales2099, why the hell did you bring up reviews in the first place? This thread is about the welfare PS4 and any high selling games which could impact Hardware sales. This nothing to do with how good a franchise is, or how much a series has fallen off in terms of quality, or if reviews think a competitor is better, but how much selling power the franchise has. I'm not the one to play the sales game to prove a title as superior, but in the context of this thread, sales is all that's relevant.

It's quite strange that you seem to ignore this fact considering your past posts usually involve discussing sales. Hell, your name is Sales2099! Yes, very strange that you'd deviate from a topic you've developed such an association with. If I didn't know any better, I'd think you had a hidden agenda to alter your posting style in an effort to spin the discussion into a review debate, so you could wallow in focusing on a subject where Forza would seem better in even the slightest way, even if that meant pathetically deviating into irrelevance.

Nah, I'm sure you had innocent intentions and were genuinely interested in an objective debate with hopes that the correct party be proven correct, devoid of personal bias or an agenda clouding your perspective. Yup, that's it.

The PS3 will be doomed at launch, followed by a period of success, and then more doom. There will be a bit more success with tiny pockets of doom scattered throughout. Then, more success and finally, doom. Also, id Software will release Doom 4 and it will be a success.