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Forums - Nintendo - Super Mario Then and Now

The_Joker_Product on 11 November 2011
RolStoppable said:
The_Joker_Product said:

And you said Mario games dont get released every year and they do, you should have specified the main series if you meant that. Mario is more abundant, it has more games, 2D or 3D its still the same game, you run and jump in the 2D Super Mario Bros Wii and you run and jump in the 3D Super Mario Galaxy 2, a change of dimension or console does not make it a completely different game.

Marios had a game every year since 2005, Super Mario 64 DS, New Super Mario Bros DS, Super Mario Galaxy, New Super Mario Bros Wii, Super Mario Galaxy 2 and Super Mario Land 3DS. In 2008 it didnt particulary have one, but there was Brawl and even though it involved the fighting, half of the game was still Mario (or another character) running and jumping around just like the others.

They dont change at all, it still involves the same basic gameplay of running and jumping its had since the start with the only difference being the games went from 2D to 3D, and with things like New Super Mario Bros theyve even gone back to 2D again.

At least with Call of Duty theres a different story, characters and they add a few new things, it has multiplayer which has seen a fair amount of changes. Whats Mario changed? nothing at all. Super Mario Land 3DS' gameplay involves and i quote from wikis description

"Similar to the classic side-scrolling Mario games, the objective of each level is to reach and grab the flagpole located at the end before the time limit expires. Super Mario 3D Land utilizes a similar health system to those games, in which Mario shrinks upon taking damage from enemies or hazards, and damage while "small" results in losing a life. The game offers a number of traditional Mario items, such as the Super Mushroom, Fire Flower, and Starman, along with new power-ups that bestow a special suit onto Mario that grants him new abilities. Some revealed power-ups include the Super Leaf from Super Mario Bros. 3 which allows him to turn into Tanooki Mario and attack with his raccoon-like tail and float in the air, with the Statue Leaf allows Mario to turn into a statue,[7] and the Propeller Box, which acts similarly to the Propeller Block and the Propeller Mushroom from New Super Mario Bros. Wii, allowing Mario to reach high places."

Funny how everything is similar to previous games, isnt there actually anything original here at all. Lets look at some more games.

The gameplay of Super Mario Galaxy 2 is similar to that of the first Super Mario Galaxy

The gameplay is similar to that of New Super Mario Bros.

Similar to previous Mario games, Mario (or Luigi) can collect coins, stomp on enemies, and break open blocks.

Super Mario Sunshine shares many similar gameplay elements with its predecessor, Super Mario 64,

Similar to this, similar to that and so on and so on. But what about the plots

 they discover a letter from Bowser, learning that he has kidnapped Princess Peach. Mario sets off in pursuit to locate and rescue the princess.

appears and attacks Princess Peach's Castle. Kidnapping the princess

Mario quickly rushes back and gives chase. Mario ventures through eight worlds pursuing Bowser Jr. and trying to rescue the kidnapped princess.

The game follows the traditional storyline of Princess Peach getting kidnapped by Bowser

How incredibly original.

I didn't need to specify which games I was talking about, because you already did. You said the ones that didn't change at all, so spinoffs like Mario Kart and Mario Party would obviously be excluded. I am arguing within the framework you laid out in the beginning, it's you who moves the goalposts constantly, because you see your entire argument falling apart.

We see this in effect in paragraph two. Super Smash Bros. Brawl needs to be included to keep up the point that Mario had yearly releases.

In paragraph three you call the switch from 2D to 3D gameplay negligible. Obviously you have to, because otherwise your already weak argument that includes SSBB as (half) a platformer would look even worse.

Then comes the talk about stories in video games and a Wikipedia entry, but the only thing this proves is that every miniscule change that is made to CoD is worth of note while every change to Mario is completely negligible in your opinion. That is a double standard.

I mentioned Mario Kart and Party as a reason for how Mario has been milked, never said they were the same type of game anyway.

You've yet to say how all these Mario games arnt all the same, infact all youve done so far is complain about what ive said and tried to worm your way around it by noting, picking out and explaining everything ive said, i know what i said because i said it.

Nothing wrong with including Brawl, its a Nintendo game starring Mario that came out that year instead of a an actual Mario game itself, its story mode still involved most of the same gameplay you get in these Mario games, you run from left to right and you jump on platforms.

The switch from 2D to 3D is negligible because no matter how its played you are still doing the exact same thing, you are running around and jumping on enemies or platforms regardless of which game it is. Years from now it will still be the same basic gameplay.

Now why dont you try arguing how all these Mario games arnt the same thing with every single release, how they differ from one another and how its not the same as COD being the same game every year.



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The_Joker_Product on 11 November 2011
RolStoppable said:
The_Joker_Product said:

I mentioned Mario Kart and Party as a reason for how Mario has been milked, never said they were the same type of game anyway.

You've yet to say how all these Mario games arnt all the same, infact all youve done so far is complain about what ive said and tried to worm your way around it by noting, picking out and explaining everything ive said, i know what i said because i said it.

Nothing wrong with including Brawl, its a Nintendo game starring Mario that came out that year instead of a an actual Mario game itself, its story mode still involved most of the same gameplay you get in these Mario games, you run from left to right and you jump on platforms.

The switch from 2D to 3D is negligible because no matter how its played you are still doing the exact same thing, you are running around and jumping on enemies or platforms regardless of which game it is. Years from now it will still be the same basic gameplay.

Now why dont you try arguing how all these Mario games arnt the same thing with every single release, how they differ from one another and how its not the same as COD being the same game every year.

I shouldn't need to explain how 2D and 3D Mario platformers differ from one another, because it's redundant. Everyone who's played them knows that they are vastly different in design. The 2D games are go-to-the-goal while the 3D games usually feature open levels that invite exploration.

It's also blatantly obvious that Brawl's adventure mode isn't even remotely the same as the other games. Brawl isn't even a Mario game in the first place, but a title that has characters from many different Nintendo series fight against each other. Taking the same leaps of logic as you do, it could be said that Brawl is actually a Zelda game, because Link runs around with a sword and slashes stuff.

Put three gameplay videos side to side, one of 2D Mario, one of 3D Mario and one of SSBB. People will tell you that they are three different types of games. Why? Well, because they are. You can't and won't achieve the same results when doing the same for CoD.

The 3D games still boil down to heading somewhere by running and jumping, its the same as the 2D games with a little more freedom. Brawls nothing like a Zelda game because Zelda games involve more than running and jumping, besides Brawls fighting the rest was running and jumping just like a Mario game.

 



The_Joker_Product on 11 November 2011
RolStoppable said:
The_Joker_Product said:

The 3D games still boil down to heading somewhere by running and jumping, its the same as the 2D games with a little more freedom. Brawls nothing like a Zelda game because Zelda games involve more than running and jumping, besides Brawls fighting the rest was running and jumping just like a Mario game.

Then how about Sonic? Is Brawl a Sonic game? SSBB is about running and jumping, just like Sonic games.

Not at all, Sonic games utilise speed in their gameplay, they're fast and energetic. Its nothing like a Sonic game, it is like a Mario game.



The_Joker_Product on 11 November 2011
RolStoppable said:
The_Joker_Product said:

Not at all, Sonic games utilise speed in their gameplay, they're fast and energetic. Its nothing like a Sonic game, it is like a Mario game.

If you say it like that, it's obvious that you either have never played a Mario game or are outright lying. Well, there's also a third option, but I would like to believe that it's one of the other two.

Wrong on both accounts, i own Brawl aswell as Galaxy 2 and NSMBW, aswell as some older ones. Theres a few differences but they're still fairy similar, its obviously nothing like Sonic. though.



Play4Fun on 11 November 2011
The_Joker_Product said:
 

The 3D games still boil down to heading somewhere by running and jumping, its the same as the 2D games with a little more freedom. Brawls nothing like a Zelda game because Zelda games involve more than running and jumping, besides Brawls fighting the rest was running and jumping just like a Mario game.

 


What? No.

2D mario and 3D mario are completely different. Just because they both involve platforming, it makes the gameplay similar? Platforming in a 3D environment is totally different from platforming in a 2D one. That's like saying COD and GTA are the same because they both boil down to shooting and killing people.

And Smash Bros. is  the same as  Mario platforming? That's...that's just so absurd I don't even know how to argue against it. Smash Bros isnt even a Mario game. It's a fighting game with characters from different franchises.

You're crazy, man...



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The_Joker_Product on 11 November 2011
Play4Fun said:
The_Joker_Product said:
 

The 3D games still boil down to heading somewhere by running and jumping, its the same as the 2D games with a little more freedom. Brawls nothing like a Zelda game because Zelda games involve more than running and jumping, besides Brawls fighting the rest was running and jumping just like a Mario game.

 


What? No.

2D mario and 3D mario are completely different. Just because they both involve platforming, it makes the gameplay similar? Platforming in a 3D environment is totally different from platforming in a 2D one. That's like saying COD and GTA are the same because they both boil down to shooting and killing people.

And Smash Bros. is  the same as 2D Mario platforming? That's...that's just so absurd I don't even know how to argue against it. Smash Bros isnt even a Mario game. It's a fighting game with characters from different franchises.

You're crazy, man...

Thats nothing remotley the same at all, you run around, you jump on enemies and platforms and follow a fairy linear path till the end while getting power ups all to save a princess who has been kidnapped by Bowser.

The game in 3D is just a different perspective. Its like with beat em ups, in Street Fighter you moved across the screen beating everyone up in ordeer to advance to the end collecting weapons and health, that was a 2D game, beat em ups i played on PS1 that were in 3D played the exact same way.

How is it like saying COD and GTA are the same thing, in COD you move from A to B shooting enemies along a linear path, the games about soldiers and terrorists, in GTA your a criminal who can kill cops and old ladies, whilst driving a bike around a open world fictional city where you can buy clothes and play arcade games.

Theres loads of different platformers that differ, Sonic wasnt like Mario which wasnt like Ratchet and Clank which wasnt like Tomb Raider. But Mario is still the same thing youve had for decades, looking at the trailer in the OP pretty much shows that as fact, the only difference is the graphics and dimensions.



amp316 on 12 November 2011

Stop fighting it guys. Nintendo has been releasing the same exact game since Super Mario Bros. There's been like 75 of them or something.



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The_Joker_Product on 12 November 2011
BasilZero said:
The_Joker_Product said:
Play4Fun said:
The_Joker_Product said:
 

The 3D games still boil down to heading somewhere by running and jumping, its the same as the 2D games with a little more freedom. Brawls nothing like a Zelda game because Zelda games involve more than running and jumping, besides Brawls fighting the rest was running and jumping just like a Mario game.

 


What? No.

2D mario and 3D mario are completely different. Just because they both involve platforming, it makes the gameplay similar? Platforming in a 3D environment is totally different from platforming in a 2D one. That's like saying COD and GTA are the same because they both boil down to shooting and killing people.

And Smash Bros. is  the same as 2D Mario platforming? That's...that's just so absurd I don't even know how to argue against it. Smash Bros isnt even a Mario game. It's a fighting game with characters from different franchises.

You're crazy, man...

Thats nothing remotley the same at all, you run around, you jump on enemies and platforms and follow a fairy linear path till the end while getting power ups all to save a princess who has been kidnapped by Bowser.

The game in 3D is just a different perspective. Its like with beat em ups, in Street Fighter you moved across the screen beating everyone up in ordeer to advance to the end collecting weapons and health, that was a 2D game, beat em ups i played on PS1 that were in 3D played the exact same way.

How is it like saying COD and GTA are the same thing, in COD you move from A to B shooting enemies along a linear path, the games about soldiers and terrorists, in GTA your a criminal who can kill cops and old ladies, whilst driving a bike around a open world fictional city where you can buy clothes and play arcade games.

Theres loads of different platformers that differ, Sonic wasnt like Mario which wasnt like Ratchet and Clank which wasnt like Tomb Raider. But Mario is still the same thing youve had for decades, looking at the trailer in the OP pretty much shows that as fact, the only difference is the graphics and dimensions.

Its true that Mario didnt change much from Sonic , however I have to say, there are some differences in the storyline in some of the mario games, yes the core part of the storyline in the mario series is rescuing the princess, however there are other storyline elements which lead to the ultimate conclusion of a mario game.

Super Mario Bros.: Bowser kidnaps Princess Toadstool (Peach) - Pure Platform
Super Mario Bros. 2 : Dream World where Bowser has no place in the storyline. Mario, Peach, Luigi and Toad are playable characters. Gameplay is different
Super Mario Bros. 3 : Bowser kidnaps Princess Toadstool (Peach) and causes chaos and havoc throughout the Mushroom kingdom turning the king into different creatures , mario has to defeat bowser's children to retrieve the wands to turn the king back to normal. - Pure Platform.
Super Mario World: Bowser kidnaps Princess Toadstool (peach) from Mario and luigi supposedly during a summer vacation according to Super Mario Advance. - Bowser also imprisons Yoshi and his friends in eggs and placed them in his children's castles. - Pure Platform
Super Mario 64: Bowser kidnaps Princess Toadstool (Peach) and takes over the Mushroom Kingdom's Castle and making all of the inhabitants be cursed to roam the castle forever or something o.O - Exploration and 3D view is added to the platform experience.
Super Mario Sunshine: Bowser's son attempts to frame Mario on Isle Delfino to send him to prison so his father can have Princess Peach. Mario for the first part of the game attempts to defeat Shadow Mario (who is bowser's son) to clear his name, of course this changes over to Princess Peach getting Kidnapped from the second part of the game. - Super Mario 64 Gameplay is extended but features additional styles to the gameplay due to the appearance of FLUDD.
Super Mario Galaxy: Bowser attempts to kidnap princess peach but at the same time to get the power of the Grand Stars to defeat mario as well (cant remember if he wanted to rule the universe in this installation) - 3D exploration is extended, gameplay is changed, but not as dramatic fashion as Super Mario Sunshine's gameplay was).
Super Mario Galaxy 2: Same story as SMG1, except I can remember Bowser wanting to rule the universe with the power of the Grand Stars. Same gameplay, the argument of mario series being the same can be used when comparing SMG1 and SMG2.

Other spin off mario games

New Super Mario Bros. Wii - Pretty much a remake of the Original NES game but features a bit new additions to the gameplay such as Yoshi, new power ups, etc. Pure Platform.
Super Mario RPG: Smithy Gang is the main villain group in this game, Bowser becomes an ally to Mario and Peach joins to save the Mushroom Kingdom and the World from the Smithy Gang. RPG style gameplay
Paper Mario: Bowser kidnaps Mario, but uses the star rod (or is it called something else) to take over the mushroom kingdom. RPG style gameplay
Super Mario Land 2 (havent played part 1) - Wario is the main villain, daisy is the princess.Six golden coins is the focal point of the storyline. Pure platform.

 

Also you cant compare SSB series to the Mario series.

Edit: One can say Nintendo did it right with the Mario series, they kept to the original formula, changed it a bit, added some good cosmetic changes and that is why the Mario series is successful.

However...the same cant be said to the Sonic series,they changed the gameplay formula completely in each generation until the recent releases of Sonic Rush/Advance. The latest 3D sonic games dont live up to the same name as the old ones (not sure about Sonic Generations).

Going by that the story mostly has the same basic plot, i actually though Sunshine was the one that stood out for not being like that but i guess even thats the same. Super Mario Bros 2 probably shouldnt count as its just Doki Doki Panic palette swap. If you adjusted all these 3D games back into 2D, theyd all be pretty much the same game.

 

 



Mr Khan on 12 November 2011
The_Joker_Product said:

Going by that the story mostly has the same basic plot, i actually though Sunshine was the one that stood out for not being like that but i guess even thats the same. Super Mario Bros 2 probably shouldnt count as its just Doki Doki Panic palette swap. If you adjusted all these 3D games back into 2D, theyd all be pretty much the same game.

 

 

No, they wouldn't. There's a fundamental element of exploration in Mario 64 at least, which was altered but remained for Sunshine and Galaxy 1 but was mostly gone for Galaxy 2 (sans the green stars), but at the end of the day what is being asked of the player remains different at its core.



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4lc0h0l on 12 November 2011

I love marios, but i think they have become too easy... its really sad that they arent really challenging anymore, I remember beating super mario galaxy dying once or twice at most..